Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It’s all I can do!
Yes, that’s true. It’s a mystery for now. One day we will all understand.
Don’t call me dear. From you it’s creepy.
Love is a great minimum.
John and Paula Sandford in TRANSFORMATION OF THE INNER MAN
insist that the standard needs to be TRUTH IN LOVE.
That love without truth is useless and often even destructive sentimentality.
And Truth without love is brutality.
Love alone in such matters as ref’d is not sufficient to prevent unwitting folks being seduced into Mary worship.
imho.
In the gospel according to Petronski, yes. But scripture does tell us about his brothers and sisters.
Again?
LOL
Again I answer your false charges NO.
He made an unintelligible post and I replied, saying his "train-wreck of a post is gibberish."
Not personal.
I think one of the Corinthian letters says something about love, too. :D
Let me say for maybe the 12th or 25th time . . .
I post as I’d have folks post to me—including the satire, mocking, whatever it takes remotely Christian in any stretch of the imagination—to help me see beyond my blind spots.
That’s just a fact.
I gather this is another RC effort to tell me what I think, feel, believe and do.
By the same sorts of folks so outraged when ANY Protty states any HINT of such as daring to assert any knowledge or assumptions about any one of more than a billion folks around the world just might be worshipping Mary.
The double standard strikes again.
Evidently for some.
. . . what . . . sequitur challenged? I wouldn’t know.
I have to bow to folks more expert and experienced in that department.
Quix, you are beloved of God. I am happy to pray for God to correct you, and I have every faith that He will.
But speaking personally, again, I do not see your sarcasm, satire, or mocking as “loving.” I grant that you mean it that way, and intend it for my own good. But sadly, it does not have that effect. It is turning me against all protties....
I’m somewhat aware of the RC edifice process.
It doesn’t impress me in the slightest.
It’s from the same class of folks—the political religious elite who foisted all manner of fantasies, myths and rubber histories off on religious serfs for political, territorial and financial gain.
Far from an impressive track record, to me.
The New Testament indicates that the criteria has to be whether the messenger believes that Christ came in the flesh . . . etc. or not.
And, I’d think—whether the messenger authentically calls Jesus Christ Lord of Lords and King of Kings—THEIR Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
And, does the message contradict Scripture at all, or not.
And, is there any more plausible explanation.
What criteria do you have in use to determine whether these apparitions are from God, or fallen angels masquerading as an angel of light?
It’s Latin. Look it up.
OH, that.
Oh, alright.
prepress copy has you slated to be a dear beloved Christian sister . . . if that’s OK.
lol. If Quix is truly turning you against all of us what does that say about you? lol
>>prepress copy has you slated to be a dear beloved Christian sister . . . if that’s OK.<<
Oh I am lovin’ that! Woooo Hoooo!
Oh there were a lot of other options.
But sometimes I try to cater to folks preferences.
I don’t generally call a search for truth all that sad.
I don’t know. Perhaps you do?
Yes, it’s like hating puppies
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