Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Good advice, but she is not dead.
>>Only angels created for the purpose of that interaction.<<
Do you have a scripture passage for that?
This is not my problem.
The rest of your train-wreck of a post is gibberish.
Either that or a Lithium deficiency.
>>That matters a lot.<<
Well, they should be guided with love then, right?
Just remember....”As ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.”
Christ did
NOT
say in Luke that those believers graduated from this life
are EQUAL to angels
IN 100% OF ALL RESPECTS!
And, there is no Biblical hint that such believers are to be ministering spirits to still earth bound believers in any way.
It is POSSIBLE to construe the “cloud of witnesses” to include graduated believers.
But even that verse does
NOT SAY
“cloud of witnesses waiting in a Heavenly unemployment line for part time ministering spirits assignments.”
sheesh.
Well if you read thru the whole bible you will see that angels are always sent from God for a reason. We know that they are created beings, a little higher than us. We know that they are not privy to God’s thoughts and plans. We know from the fact that some are fallen, that they can sin. Since they sin, I would suppose that they are capable of death.
The Catholic church does a series of tests, and it takes years to determine what is accepted. There is a huge beaurocratic process to determine what is sactioned by the church. Regardless, I hear the messages, and I know God when I see/hear him. He has so much love for us. It’s all about love. Those who preach fear and anymosity are lost.
Okay. When you put it up, ping me, Okay?
I want to know where I fit in. :-)
That response is true to form. How else COULD you reply?
What verses in Luke?
The saddest part of this post is that you are serious about this question.
Agreed. Christ said only that they were like angels. He also mentioned they were children of God. In my own interpretation of scripture, guided by prayer and the Holy Spirit, I didn’t see any qualifiers in His words, so I took Christ at face value.
Maybe you have some authority for changing His Holy Words into something else?
Just checking....
Oh, mgist. I truly hope you aren’t depending on her for any help. Only God can help you. Mary cannot.
Thankfully for both of us, God has not appointed me as your spiritual mentor nor you as my spiritual mentee.
And I’m quite comfortable leaving such between you and your master . . .
particularly not beyond the pontifications I feel constrained to fling about.
Luke 20, 34-38. I used the KJV.
Good point. We really can’t just take one scripture and make a statement about it. We need to know the whole counsel of God and see what other scriptures say about that subject.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.