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The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; rcc; romancatholic
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To: Petronski

Yeah, in your dreams.


2,041 posted on 06/04/2008 1:37:30 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Traditions of Men: Sola Cauvin
2,042 posted on 06/04/2008 1:37:57 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: wagglebee

How can you say that when it’s out there for all to see? Don’t you EVER question anything your church says? We’re supposed to.


2,043 posted on 06/04/2008 1:38:54 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary
Hey, we’ve already got one, and we actually read it.

You just got done saying you didn't need one.

2,044 posted on 06/04/2008 1:39:13 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: wagglebee

I would think you would realize that’s a common statement, but if you didn’t, sorry. I’m not here to fight either.


2,045 posted on 06/04/2008 1:39:44 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: wagglebee
The "woman" is Eve and all her descendants.
2,046 posted on 06/04/2008 1:40:01 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: 1000 silverlings

I guess...


2,047 posted on 06/04/2008 1:40:36 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary
Yeah, in your dreams.

You deny everything your preacher tells you to deny?

2,048 posted on 06/04/2008 1:40:46 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Marysecretary

>>She will be alive after the judgement, like the rest of us.<<

I’m not picking here, I really don’t understand. How can she not be alive when Our Lord promised “Eternal” life? There isn’t a “stop and start” to Eternal. It’s eternal, always, forever.

How can it stop when one leaves the Earth?


2,049 posted on 06/04/2008 1:40:56 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: wagglebee

Why don’t you get off that hatred kick? We don’t hate you any more than you hate us.


2,050 posted on 06/04/2008 1:41:26 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Ah, those mysteries...


2,051 posted on 06/04/2008 1:43:10 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary; Dr. Eckleburg

“the hatred kick” is a security blanket. Using it as a talisman to ward off evil, there’s no reason to get out from under it.


2,052 posted on 06/04/2008 1:43:27 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Marysecretary
Why don’t you get off that hatred kick? We don’t hate you any more than you hate us.

You shall know them by their friuts.

2,053 posted on 06/04/2008 1:44:49 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Marysecretary
Protestants differ from Catholics on the meaning of that scripture and we always will. The Eucharist is not Christ and therefore it cannot save.

It's right there in Scripture, friend, clear as could be.

"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you."

The Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ. Protestants differ from Catholics and Orthodox Christians on this issue because they have to, not because they are teaching the truth.

To base one's entire theology upon Sola Scriptura but reject Christ's clear and unequivocal teaching on the Eucharist is the ultimate paradox.

As a fellow Christian, I want you to have the fullness of the Faith. The Eucharist is a wonderful gift instituted by Christ himself. I pray that you will one day be able to experience the immediacy of Christ's love via the gift of His Real Presence.
2,054 posted on 06/04/2008 1:45:20 PM PDT by Antoninus (John 6:54)
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To: Petronski

Fruits even.


2,055 posted on 06/04/2008 1:45:30 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: 1000 silverlings
What "current darkness"?

In case you haven't noticed the world is in a sad state. We are as blind as we ever were. Like a good mother would, Our Lady guides us back to Jesus. God has always sent his messengers to help and warn us. It is no different today.

2,056 posted on 06/04/2008 1:47:50 PM PDT by mgist (Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hear)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Well, it is definitely connected with trying to ward off evil, so you got that part right.


2,057 posted on 06/04/2008 1:48:11 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Antoninus; Marysecretary; Dr. Eckleburg

I like the appeal to Sola Scriptura when it suits you. How do you determine when to use it and when not to?


2,058 posted on 06/04/2008 1:48:43 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Sorry, I can’t read Calvin because he’s not in Scripture. He’s just a commentator on Scripture with no teaching authority whatsoever.


2,059 posted on 06/04/2008 1:49:38 PM PDT by Antoninus (John 6:54)
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To: mgist

The Word of God and the revelation of Christ isn’t enough to get you through huh?


2,060 posted on 06/04/2008 1:49:59 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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