Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Earlier someone said "No one else was waiting in the wings". It had to be Mary, then, no one else. Now they are saying she had free will and she could decline. they can't get their stories straight
You need to take a lesson from your administrative smackdown the other day.
You are not the "final word" of anything.
When I became a Christian 39 years ago, I told God I wanted a ministry of love. It’s not easy to love those who despitfully use you, or those who refuse to love you, but I’ve been pretty successful. I don’t hate one single person here. I am concerned that some may miss heaven because they don’t put their faith in Christ. As I repeat often, baptism won’t save you, Mary can’t save you and the Eucharist can’t save you. When I perceive that error, I speak out against it, not to hurt anyone but to speak truth. i know it’s been misconceived by most RC’s, but I really do care about all of you and your eternal salvation, which is between you and God.
No need. The Reformation was conducted in the light of the Son, unlike the Counter Reformation which worked in stealth and continues to do so to this day.
I dunno. I'm intrigued but frightened.
lol.
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
Now there's a big surprise.
When do you beam us up, Scotty?
I’m not really qualified to interpret religious symbols. But I think the horn is a symbol of “The Lord’s bounty, Thanksgiving”> There is a lot of symbolism throughout the image of Guadalupe, if that’s what you are talking about.
Blasphemy to whom? The petty autocratic god created by Jean Cauvin in his own image?
I thank God and give Him alone the credit for my healing. I may thank others for their kindness in remembering me.
It's called paraphrasing. Try being dedicated to the bible and trying to get an RC to care what it doesn't say.
Why aren’t they shofurs? Why aren’t they rams horns then? why cow horns? They are just like Hathor’s.
Yeah, seriously. I don't know why Catholics bother asking the tough questions, when the "reformed" evade them so often.
It's an RC thing. It never would have come to my mind if I didn't hear it from an RC. So who is the pervert?
Yet you ignore it when we do the same.
There is no conflict between the two statements.
God graciously made Mary an offer she couldn't and wouldn't refuse.
I trust God when He says He "declared the end from the beginning."
You're free to dispute that.
As God wills.
And very interesting, I might add. LOL.
I have never seen that writing before and appreciate having seen it. It saddens me that anyone could read that and think it is or should be part of the bible.
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