The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Quix]

HOGWASH.

Except for the wordiness—for some of us a genetic defect—

I find the last paragraph of that post particularly Thoroughly untrue.

I can understand that some folks would have great difficulty seeing the lack of truth in that paragraph because of systemic blinders and biases at a core foundational level.

[Mad Dawg]

I’m hip to Babylon’s persisting into the CE, but could you define “pagan”? Seriously.

[Antoninus]

Pagan Fable ! Peter was commanded to go only to the Jew. He went to the 2nd largest Jewish city, Babylon, after Jerusalem.

No, Peter in "Babylon" is a Protestant fable of the past 200-odd years vintage. Again, we're supposed to believe that Protestant scholars of the 19th century with an ax to grind knew better than Tertullian or Ignatius of Antioch. BTW, Babylon was a desolate wasteland in the 1st century AD.

St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles

[CharlesWayneCT]

The problem I see with that is it just turns the issue around. Because I believe ALL the elect already have what is promised, just as Mary does — again meaning that Mary is not currently “special”, or in possession of something regarding salvation and sinlessness that the other Elect do not have.

I would however further agree that, being dead, Mary has a state different from the living Elect. Her state is the same as the other Dead Elect.

Having said THAT, I will further state that knowing what is true in the living world is hard enough without knowing what is true of those who have died. So long as nobody asks me to take personal action based on their belief, you can pretty much believe whatever you want about what happened to Mary when she died, or what happens to the rest of us. It doesn’t effect me now, and when I die I’ll find out what is next.

[Quix]

Israel’s protracted birth post Christ’s earthly walk . . . into the Nation of Promise as God committed himself to . . .

is scheduled to have the dragon attempt to abort that ‘child.’

In any case, there’s a list of reasons that the woman in Rev is NOT Mary, Christ’s mother.

I realize systemic biases prevent some from apprehending that truth.

[Mad Dawg]

Old Testament, the deluxe version with nothing left out.

[Quix]

What a farcical straw dog.

RC’s pretend with straight faces that the RC edifice has been a seamless homogeneous body of pure doctrine and practices from 2000 years ago.

What a pile of smelly political pontifications.

1. The RC edifice did not begin until about AD 400.

2. History—the UNrubberized version—is crystal clear that the RC edifice has been a mess with a long list of contradictory dogmatic pontifications and

3. a long list of horrific practices off and on for centuries.

Fantasies to the otherwise are . . . brazen fantasies.

Thankully, there are Christians that have the ability to see through such hogwash—including some RC’s hereon.

[Antoninus]

You are ignorant of history.

Uh, the city of Babylon was a desolation by the 1st century AD, according to the historical sources I've read. Can you provide a primary source (written by a witness in or around the 1st century AD) that says otherwise. Or some valid archaeological data?

[Petronski]

You might not recognize Tobit, but if you do not, it is probably because you have been robbed, your Bible redacted.

[Philo-Junius]

“I think I’m going to start praying that Holy Spirit give some of the key RC’s hereon—especially those with any hint of ears to hear and eyes to see—supernatural dreams, visitations, visions of what the authentic Mary is really doing in Heaven . . . as well as How God sees the RC perspective on Mary . . . as well as How God sees the double standard etc. stuff.

Could be interesting. We shall see. May not be His priority.”

I think that’s a great idea!

I’ll do the same for the Protestants, and we’ll all meet up at the end and compare notes!

PVO

[CharlesWayneCT]

Ah, interesting perspective.

It seems that if I want to call someone stupid, I just wait until someone else posts a reply to that person, and then reply to THAT poster saying “some people are just stupid”.

And if the other poster thinks THEY are that “some person”, well, they are taking a general statement and making it personal.

Do I understand correctly?

[Petronski]

1. The RC edifice did not begin until about AD 400.

That is irrelevant to Catholics. The Catholic Church began circa AD 32, at the Pentecost.

[Mad Dawg]

I think I get that. I was mainly arguing that what we say is not all that WAY far out there and especially that Mary's whatever is entirely because of and dependent on God in IHS.

The rest of the specialness would be another argument. But I think the first thing to settle is that we don't think she has anyting that she did not receive.

[Uri’el-2012]

BTW, Babylon was a desolate wasteland in the 1st century AD

More Pagan fables from the Roman church !

Read the history of the Jews by the Jews:

In the 1st century BCE a Jewish State was set up around Nehardea by two brothers,
ANILAI (Anilaos) and ASINAI (Asinaios), and this lasted for many years.
The Jews of Babylon (Babylon was an empire which contained Kurdistan) remained
in constant touch with the Jews of Israel and even supplied some of their leaders
(e.g. Hillel) with arms and supplies. During the Roman occupation, the Babylonian
Jews rose against the emperor Trajan, the revolt being bloodily suppressed by his
commander, Lucius Quietus (116 CE).

from The forced conversion of the Jewish community of Persia and the beginnings of the Kurds

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Petronski]

An interesting and novel proposal. Why don't you give it a try?

Do I understand correctly?

Why ask me?

[Mad Dawg]

Yep. The rule is you can insult an entire group, just not any individual member of the group.

I don't write this stuff.

[DungeonMaster]

You might not recognize Tobit, but if you do not, it is probably because you have been robbed, your Bible redacted.

Now I can see why that silly book was removed.

[Mad Dawg]

James is next, huh? If the theology doesn't accord with what we think it should be we'll just boot it out.

Anyway, seriesly, it does help show that when the canon is defined or redefined, things look different. This is hugh.

[Uri’el-2012]

The Catholic Church began circa AD 32, at the Pentecost.

The Torah observant Jews including the apostles were gathered
as required in Jerusalem for the celebration of the YHvH commanded
Feast of Shavuot ( also known as Pentecost in Koine Greek ) when
the Ru'ach HaKodesh descended on them.

All of the apostles were commanded to only go to the Jew.

Later Yah'shua chose Paul and Paul only to go to the gentiles.

The Roman church was founded after the Pagan Council at Nicea

b'SHEM Yah'shua

[Petronski]

The Roman church was founded after the Pagan Council at Nicea

Fine (whatever).

But the Catholic Church began AD 32 at the Pentecost.