Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
The righteous gold in Scripture is usually quite accessible to the simplest child of good heart.What vernacular is the OT (or NT) written in?
In that time period what was written by whom? Are those thoughts crude?
What does Scripture intimate about God's thoughts concerning "wisdom" and the "educated"?
You're absolutely correct in your assessment. Let me tell you one thing with certitude:
this is NOT an excercise in intellectual proficiency. I can cite you emminent professors that have major portions of Scripture memorized and don't believe a single word of it.
There is NO way that one can be illuminated by truth without the Holy Spirit's influence; that will NEVER come without asking for it.
There is also cousin in #1291NAsbU Colossians 4:10 Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his
greetings; and also Barnabas's cousin Mark (about whom you received
instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);
Amen. How much clearer can that be? Arghh.
The trinity is not extra-Biblical, as if you don’t know that. All three persons in the God-head are clearly identified and established in Scripture. Just because the word doesn’t show up don’t mean the principle ain’t there.
No human can fulfill the sacrifice of Christ. He declared “It is finished!” (or “It is paid in full!” depending on which translation you prefer). All any saint - including Mary - can do is point people to Jesus. Neither she nor anyone else can fulfill what He completed. No one’s salvation depends on Mary or any other earthly priest.
You fail to answer the question I posed, only bringing up peripheral arguments to detract from the issue: Why is Jesus not enough?
Oh, of COURSE it is...LOL.
It is clear to those who have eyes to see it is not clear to fence posts
>>Amen. How much clearer can that be? Arghh.<<
So when someone calls my adopted sister “your sister” it magically makes us blood relatives?
I do want her skin tone though.
Or you can download an Excel file from this page, look for “Read the Bible in a year” near the top of the right column: http://menofhonorministry.org/Discipleship.htm
You can put in start date and it will populate a chronological reading plan for the year for the whole Scripture. I print out each month’s reading and use it as a bookmark.
Sorry, but most protestants don’t go for this stuff. Never heard of Stewart.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
That is correct. Just like your bible. Your worship sevice. Your concordance. Your AWANA club. The essayists you read. The sermons you listen to. They all lead to Jesus.
I don’t keep that much track of such things though I agree strongly with you.
The RM would know. He has referred to it in open threads 2-3 times, IIRC.
You might find it quicker doing a search of all his posts the last 3-4 weeks.
WHAT is so hard to understand about that scripture? Arggh.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Why? So we can get slapped on that one, too? LOL.
Lutein.
WHY IS CHRIST NOT ENOUGH? I can’t help but wonder about that myself. It boggles my mind.
>>Why? So we can get slapped on that one, too? LOL.<<
Didn’t Christ command that you do that?
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