Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Unable to provide illuminating information.
Pity. Yet another claim swirls down the commode.
***Think what you will of Mary, but she would be shocked at the way she’s venerated by many (not all) Catholics.***
I love the way that so many speak for others. Mary would do this. Jesus would do that. The Holy Spirit would do the other.
Do you have proof?
***She was not sinless, she had other children, and she was HIS mother, not mine or anyone else’s. ***
The early Church indicated otherwise. 1 Tim 3:
15
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
Not any old church; the Church of Jesus Christ which He founded and the Holy Spirit commissioned. Not churches of men that were founded in the 1500s and 1600s and 1700s and 1800s and 1900s and 2000s and...
Names like Luther and Calvin and Zwingli and Knox and Smyth and...
As usual, Mark, we will have to agree to disagree...
Scriptural evidence is key here.
You might appreciate the Acts 15 commentary posted here:
http://daaixin.wordpress.com/da-ai-xins-commentary-on-acts-15-warning-some-satire/
I appreciate the colours.
Sometimes, I try to minister to all . . . uhhhhhh
levels
of interests.
***Sometimes, I try to minister to all . . . uhhhhhh
levels
of interests.***
If you’d direct it to triple digit IQs, we’d be grateful.
That’s no problem . . . depending on my perceptiveness.
A pope being...? Since I don't see the word in the Bible, I don't look for it anywhere.
***A pope being...? ***
Pontiff, steward of the church, head theologian, arbiter of doctrine. When one makes up his own theology, he acts as his own Pope.
***Since I don’t see the word in the Bible, I don’t look for it anywhere.***
Therefore you would not look for the term Trinity either, using the same logic. Let’s see, what else is not in the Bible?
The Lord’s day on Sunday. How about Rapture? Incarnation? Were Were any of the Apostles (except for Paul) baptized? How about Once Saved, Always Saved? Do you ask Jesus to Come Into Your Heart? Have you accepted Jesus as Your Personal Saviour? How about Prayer Meetings on Wednesday Nights? How about Denomination (or non-denominational)?
Just because something is not expressly written does not make it either untrue or unChristian.
Private interpretation, on the other hand is proscribed.
And what makes you think that?
***Pontiff, steward of the church, head theologian, arbiter of doctrine. When one makes up his own theology, he acts as his own Pope.
And what makes you think that?***
Your posts, for one thing.
Enjoy your cult.
***Enjoy your cult.***
I do not have a cult, unlike so many of my Protestant brethren.
I am privileged to follow the Church of Jesus Christ. You know, the one found in the Bible? The Church with Apostolic Succession right back to the Lord? Are you following?
May I enquire as to the specifics of your theology? Mine is in plain sight and available to all.
Ok, so you’re a Protestant who does not believe in the Trinity or in Jesus being the Son of God?
I'm not protesting Rome; Trinity ? Does Yah'shua believe in the "trinity"? Yah'shua said our Elohim is YHvH and He is ONE. He also said "the father and I are one". "If you have seen me you have seen the father". Are the terms Father and Son metaphors ?
I do not consider myself a "Protestant".
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
I think Rome is lost in man's traditions.
It's incredible what some people who claim to be Trinitarian Christians will overlook just to ally themselves with a person who opposes Catholicism. It says A LOT about their actual faith.
I think it is a man made tradition to support impugning Holy Scripture.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
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