Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
"it must be the settled purpose of your heart to will nothing, design nothing, do nothing, but so far as there is reason to believe that it is the will of God. It is as great rebellion against God to think that your will may ever rightly differ from His as it could be to boast in His universe that you have not recieved the power of willing from Him...To think that you are your own, or at your own disposal, is as absurd as to think that you created yourself." - William Law (The Power of the Spirit, pg 20).
I fact, on second thought, I can't understand how you missed it! It was in really big letters! And every word less than one syllable.
Hey, I know. I'll quote it here, in italics:
Okay? Can you see it now? Did the italics make it easier to see or harder?
(tsk, tsk. I probably know as much about Zen as anyone on this thread, and you guys come at me with "words of less than one syllable," as though that were a challenge! Most of us here get in trouble with words of one syllable or more. If we stuck with words of less than one syllable, this would be a far more charitable thread. Jeesh.)
I pray continually that the alcoholism of my first husband doesn’t get passed down to my children and grandchildren. It was devastating to our family and I never want to see any other members go through what he did and what we did because of it.
Are we that stupid? LOL?
I lived with my in-laws for 12 years. That we stayed friends is a miracle. It wasn’t so nice during those 12 years but she was my mom at my second marriage and loved my husband, as he did her. She was my ‘other mother’ as she wanted to be called. My children were very close to her as we lived there much of their growing up years. MIL’s don’t have to be contentious. I try not to be but of course some times you see things that you wish you didn’t! Hard to stay quiet sometimes but I do. I pray a lot...
He’s not a faith healer in the usual sense. He tries to get people to see how unforgiveness, fear, self-hatred, and the like cause illness, and when we repent of it, how we can be healed of those diseases. It seems to work much of the time.
***&, %, (), @
( sorry, couldn’t resist)***
Trying to resist myself. :)
***(tsk, tsk. I probably know as much about Zen as anyone on this thread, and you guys come at me with “words of less than one syllable,” as though that were a challenge! Most of us here get in trouble with words of one syllable or more. If we stuck with words of less than one syllable, this would be a far more charitable thread. Jeesh.)***
I bow to the master. I was hoping that SOMEBODY would get it.
There is that, alright.
LOL.
Sadly
No comment.
ROFL.
And not only more charitable, but a whole lot shorter too ....
LOL.
Quite so.
Quite so.
Sometimes, folks are wise to
SIGNAL ME
in red neon lights.
Didn’t you mean . . . Father, Son, Spirit?
Or were you emphasizing that even Scripture doesn’t explicitly state praying even to Intercessor Son?
In the final, apocalyptic struggle, the dwarves fire on both sides.
Later when they find themselves in Paradise, they are resolved not to believe it and, trapped in their cynicism, find that what to others are rich food and wine are to them like stable refuse.
Do you believe we should have completely open borders? No restrictions? Just come on in?
While I agree we should offer necessary food and shelter to all in need, including the illegals, I also believe they should be sent back.
"Immigrants are immigrants". Sure, but not all the same.
My folks came from Newfoundland in the early 1900's and the ones still with us still drop their "H"'s and add them where not appropriate. "Did you ear about poor old Enry? E's gone to the other side e as. Hit was an accident you know. E was fishig for Addock and fell into the hocean."
I find it difficult to dumb down posts for specific consumption to words of one syllable or less, however, I try when the occasion demands it.
Umor this hold guy. Convert the above sentence.
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