Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
QED: Miriam had only one child is a Pagan Fable
Isn’t it amazing what you can learn around here?
Were it not for FR I would never have known how little regard the Lord had for His Mother and Peter. Nor would I have known that the Holy Family would NEVER place the care and upbringing of God above their sex life.
You have not demonstrated anything. Mary had only one child: Jesus.
The only instances I have seen of this are where the bishop shut down multiple parishes within close proximity of each other. Is there any surprise? No. He stopped catechizing them years ago, replaced their priests with Lay Ecclesial Ministers and then shut them down. Now he is preparing to do the same thing to another community. Catholics can tolerate just so much before they up and leave for greener pastures. And the Evangelical Churches are waiting for them with open arms.
Mary is deprecated and insulted by those who envy her devotion and obedience to Christ.
In high-school terms, she makes it harder on everyone else by “blowing the curve.”
You are correct, it happens as the result of a failure of the Bishop.
Good analogy.
“The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of evil bishops.”
I think that’s usually attributed to St. Cyprian. Point being bad men have been attacking the Church from without and within from the days of Ananias and Saphira.
And yet the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
It must therefore by a pagan fable.
This is quite possibly the faultiest logic that I have EVER seen!
Can you indicate a Protestant denomination that has a reading schedule that includes the ENTIRE Bible over a proscribed period of time?
To my knowledge Protestants make no claim concerning the coverage of Bible reading during Church Services. Protestants are expected to read the Bible at home and/or during Bible Study.
What would compel you to ask such an unrelated question?
That a statement is false.
However, it does not rise to the level of a lie unless it is knowingly false. I do not see where he said you stated it was true though you knew it to be false.
A plenary indulgence is offered to any Catholic who spends a half-hour a day in pious study of sacred Scripture.
Additionally, the Liturgy of the Hours provides readings from every book of the Catholic Bible, along with selections from Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church, in a one-year cycle.
In the Pepsicola Church if you did Daily prayer you did the entire psalter every 7 weeks and a great chunk of the OT and, as far as I know all the NT in two years.
If I say to you 2+3=7 and you say, "untrue," have you called me a liar or corrected what you see as an error on my part?
I made a statement, you corrected me, I recognized the validity of your correction.
To my knowledge Protestants make no claim concerning the coverage of Bible reading during Church Services. Protestants are expected to read the Bible at home and/or during Bible Study.
What would compel you to ask such an unrelated question?
Your insinuation was that the ONLY place a Catholic read the Bible was in Mass, this would be a false assumption. Therefore, it makes just as much sense for me to infer that without hearing it in Church that a Protestant might not read the whole Bible. So yes, if your question is valid, so is mine.
Unrelated?
LOL
thank you for such a courteous reply.
The best thing I love about the LCMS (and this cannot be said for all Lutheran churches, because the ELCA is off the liberal deep end and is just about to descend into full blown heresy with the homosexual thing.
Wow. It is amazing how widespread the modernist infiltration of the mainline churches is. It seems like every faith group has to contend with a progressive rabble who have lost their way.
...is that the focus is fully and completely on Jesus Christ. The Theology of the Cross is first and foremost in Lutheran teaching. Jesus is front and center. We aren't putting things in his way, like doctrines of "election", or Marianism, or any other distractions.
I fully appreciate that perspective. Catholicism is centered on Christ as well. If the Lutheran mass is identical to the Catholic one, than you are probably aware of that. The attention given to the saints is much further on the periphery than those without that tradition might be able to perceive. It looms larger than it actually is because it is outside the faith experience of those unfamiliar with it.
Please check my #1115. Also I think there is a supplement, maybe even more than one, to the office of readings. another year through the office and I’m going to get me one.
And no one is counting the amount of Bible study classes we go to. Another one starts Sunday in our parish, however I’m electing to do Latin this time around. I’m missing the first class tonight. Poo.
In all seriousness: I thouth the difference between calling a statement “untrue” or “false” or something of the kind and calling it a lie was, well, common knowledge. Wow, if not, then I bet I’ve been misunderstood right much.
Hypocrisy rules!
The influx of protestants to the Catholic Church are theologians who have studied Scripture, read the Early Church Fathers and recognize how God works through His Church to ensure the future and Salvation of mankind.
First, unless you are intent on deliberately insulting those Christian brothers you "love" you should make a special effort to capitalize a proper noun. In this case Protestant.
How many of these "theologians" can you name? Do you have numbers?
You have personaly posted several threads on the subject. Let me repeat; the same name posted 10 times is still one person.
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