Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Because Mary is not God.
No.
You never passed Logic 101.
Look, if the English Language was good enough for Jesus Christ, it oughta be good enough for the Catholic Church.
You are barking up the wrong tree friend. I am a traditionalist of the Apostolic kind. I am not a traditionalist from works of fraud and gnostic in origin.
The plan of salvation is plainly revealed from the tradition of the Apostles. Nothing else need be revealed in order to be saved. Are you saying Christ's sacrifice is not enough? Remember Pius XII says you are out as a Catholic if you even question the Assumption.
Give me any Apostle or quotes from Jesus saying you are out if you question who He brings body and all to Heaven. Give me a quote from Jesus saying there are progressive teachings throughout all of time you need to learn in order for your salvation? God still has more to reveal in order to be saved? That is a new one.
Simply put, don’t believe in the Assumption, not Catholic (How are you saved?).
Simply put, question the Assumption, face the wrath of God, Peter and Paul.
Heck, forget Logic 101, a pre-schooler can figure this one out.
You know what’s missing from your analysis?
“Necessary, but not sufficient.”
If I am not Catholic how am I saved?
Will I be facing the wrath of God, Peter and Paul Petronski? For just questioning the Assumption?
Was Pius XII just joking?
Logic 101 indeed.
BnBl, I love you (in a brotherly way...philos, not eros).
LOLOL
Not what Pius XII says ex cathedra.
Show me.
yes.
Your faith is straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
Pretty serious if you ask me, driven form the Universal Church, facing a 3-way wrath encounter, all for just questioning a shaky legend lacking in Apostolistic tradition, early “Church Fathers” awareness and popping out of thin air later used as a means for getting kicked out.
??
I had not heard this before, of one’s faith prohibiting one wearing a wedding ring...I may be getting too nosy here, but I am curious about the basis for this prohibition...could you exxplain further?...thanks...
That’s right. “Necessary, but not sufficient.”
Pius XII saved the lives of 860,000 Jews during the Holocaust.
I may have once, but I do no more.
Sorry duty calls, wife and all.
Nice talking with you, will be back though, at this rate it seems this thread will go on to infinity and beyond.
God Bless
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