Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Of course. Aren’t YOU?
Well, neither are we, Petronski. Where do you get such ideas?
Just be a sweet little old lady and they’ll love you! It’s a blessing to be with the elderly when they pass from this world to the next. Love, M
Exactly. Good points.
Mind reading is not permitted...except for RC’s.
Enat’s talking about works only, not faith and works. You need faith first, then God has His works for you to do. It’s not the other way around. Works by themselves will never get you favor with God or into heaven.
Isn’t that the truth. That was one thing that bothered my husband, the ex-catholic. Why go to mere man when you have the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, bending His ear to you for you to speak to Him personally?
He’s gone back to knowing nothing. Satisfied?
Don’t tell my kids that, okay (LOL)? They’re in their 40’s and mom still tries to make them do what’s right...
IIRC, he was responding to my post. If not, sorry.
Yup.
I butted in. :)
"The feast of the Dormition dates at least from the 5th C. It was always celebrated in Jerusalem on this date, whilst in some other parts of the Eastern church the date varied. In the 7th C, the Byzantine emperor, Maurice decreed that the Dormition be celebrated everywhere on the 15th. Later the Western Church adopted the same date, but always kept it simply as the Assumption."
And that is not an insistence, it is an observation.
An observation to one is nosy prying to another especially if the intent was perhaps less than honorable.
WELL DONE.
Keep in mind, group,
GATES
are
DEFENSIVE!
Thank you both for displaying 18 centuries of the Church’s understanding of the Assumption.
When it is not expressly and completely written in simple language in the Bible, our friends dismiss it; when it is, then our friends ignore it.
It does seem rather absurd to claim that the belief didn’t exist for 18 centuries when art clearly shows otherwise.
Oh if there were a "Calvin League" with William Donovan at it's head these attacks would not go unanswered. :)
Perhaps we have a rubber time machine.
It’s a lot like the Muslims claiming that there were never any Jews in Jerusalem.
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