Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It matters to the people who sneer about the Catholic Church keeping the Bible from its faithful.
Acts 17:
30
God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people everywhere repent
31
because he has established a day on which he will ‘judge the world with justice’ through a man he has appointed, and he has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.”
All people. God demands that all people everywhere repent.
Repentence is enabled by God’s Grace. Salvation also comes from God. We are grateful that the Reformed understand this. At least some of our teaching has made it through.
"By earning stripes, Dr. E. just means that one has got the attention or ire of a Catholic. That is the purpose of the game."
You are incorrectly determining my intent, as well as misreading my post, and adding to it what was not there.
Further, I'm not playing any "game." This is probably more projection on your part, but that would be just a guess based on observation of its many occurrances.
There never appears to be much substance in your posts. Just a lot of "oh, yeah???"
I don’t think that many of the Popes were on the high school student council.
Happy silence!
Yeah Old Reggie, you’re right. The Greek in Acts 6:8 is different.
Only Jesus and Mary are described as filled with grace. You make a good point.
***Few books in the history of the world have been in continuous print longer than “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.”***
And fewer yet contain such outright fabrications and distortions.
Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is popular for the same reason the New York Post is popular: fantastic pulp fiction is more interesting than dreary old facts.
I don’t know. Does it matter here?
Check your gear. I think your sarcasmeter is jammed.
It would seem it does.
Thank you sir.
Just curious, are you going to answer wagglebee’s excellent post about history?
Who do you think the King of France thought himself beholden to and therefore worked to please through his Jesuit emmissaries? At the time, over half of France was owned by the Catholic clergy.
I’m not sure the Jesuits were Catholic even then.
As if we have to go through some earthly emmisary for forgiveness of our sins when Christ is waiting to hear our every thought.
Did you really mean to say this?!?
The Jesuits were created as the attack dogs of the counter-Reformation.
ROFLMTO
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