Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
You should know...
Why would I believe that creation was before free will? Couldn't they have been created in the same instant? Also, Why would God, Whom I would think we could agree is omnipotent, without flaw, merciful and just, create beings whom He knows are doomed without recourse? Did not the Christ come as a savior? If He came as such, did He not die to save us all? If yes, then why can we not, through our adherence to His two great commandments, be saved? If no, that would indicate to me that Jesus' sacrifice is imperfect.
It would seem that the exercise of free will to choose to follow Christ or not to is the ultimate gift, since it is we who accept the perfect gift. God is simply just in enforcing our choice.
As an aside, it seems to me that the perception of God as an angry God is not borne out by my experiences. To me, it seems He is merciful and loving of all of His creations. Just like a parent loves a wayward child. Not approving of bad behavior, but nevertheless willing to forgive when the child corrects him/herself. Isn't there some bible passage about a son who goes out and comes back?
I’m not a Calvinist Mark. I’ve told you that before but I guess you weren’t listening...
Thanks very much..I just loved taking care of the old people...now that I am getting old, or some would say, I am already old, I wonder if anyone will enjoy taking care of me, should I need it...probably not...
Don’t laugh at me, Mary, for I am not keeping score.
Great post. But they don’t worship Mary, or Peter, or, or, or,....
Where in the gospel does it say that Mary is still alive or was taken up in the clouds like her Son????
I wasn't referring to you. Are you part of a team?
I agree with your conclusion. The behavior is reprehensible.
Yet there are no Catholics "counting their points."
NONE, Mary.
NONE.
Remember Goebbels.
10,064 posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:08:55 PM by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know everything.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10048 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
It’s okay when they do it...
I must have missed this point counting thingey, or just skimmed over it for some reason...I would agree if someone is counting ‘points’, that is bizarre...but then, to each his own...
Go, guy, go!!!
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!
Gost isn’t the one who is confused on these posts...
I’ll trust the Christ of the Bible over the Traditions of Man and the Catholic church any day of the week. Cheez.
The way most of these FR catholics react when given the truth of the gospel, one could be tempted to let them live in their heresies and miss heaven. Arghhhh.
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