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To: Petronski

Where in the gospel does it say that Mary is still alive or was taken up in the clouds like her Son????


10,908 posted on 07/01/2008 8:28:21 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary
Mary, where in the Scripture does it say sola scriptura?
10,912 posted on 07/01/2008 8:35:37 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Marysecretary
It appears that there are quite a few posting on this thread that simply to not believe that the Bible is necessary to establish doctrine. For them, the Bible is just nice to have around if it can be used as an extra prop when trying to establish the all-powerfulness of their visible ecclesiastical system.

If the Bible can be used to fan the flames of fear in a soul, to keep that soul in bondage to the system, under threat of hell (or any form of intermediate place of judgment before one can enter Heaven), then fine.

Whenever the same Bible, however, indicates something that could possibly detract from the system's authority, then they must bambooozle the common reader by using the supposed linguistic authority with which the common Bible reader is not equipped to argue. You know that common believers have been mentally conditioned over the past three or four generations to think that anyone who can cite NT Greek references are just the cat's pajamas.

When someone cites a Greek reference, they count on the common man thinking that there is only one Greek text. But there are actually as many varying Greek “authorities” as you will find numbers of English version s in your local Bible book store. These varying texts DON'T all agree. When anyone says, "THE (e.g., singular) Greek says," they are usually speaking out of ignorance or with subterfuge.

When we were working in the Philippines, we distributed a list of seventeen denominations and cults that all use Matthew 16:18, and claim that the church in the passage is THEM. I don't have that list here, but a few are . . . .

1. The Catholic Church based in the Vatican, Rome.
2. The Catholic Church based in the Philippines, otherwise called Aglipay (ah’glee pie).
3. Iglesia Ni Cristo (”Church of Christ”) based in the Philippines.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They teach that LDS is a restoration of it.
5. “Landmark” Baptist Churches (We call them Baptist-Briders).
6. Church of Christ (Campbellite)

And at least eleven others. I'm looking for the full list now.

These groups would each respectively have you mentally read the verse this way . . . .

1. “Upon this rock I will build the Catholic Church (Vatican), and that gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Catholic, Vatican)

2. “Upon this rock I will build the Catholic (Aglipai) church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Catholic, Philippines)

3. “Upon this rock I will build the Iglesia Ni Cristo, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

4. “Upon this rock I will build the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

5. “Upon this rock I will build a succesion of Baptist churches, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Landmark Baptist)

6. “Upon this rock I will build the churches of Christ (Campbellite), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Now, do you know what the word “gates” means? Most of the people that have a visible church to defend as being the only true church will tell you that “gates” means “authority” or “power.” I'll tell you what I believe “gates” means - - - - it means GATES. Gates that require a key to open. See Revelation 1:18.

Gates meaning gates, I also believe that gates of hell means exactly . . . gates of hell. Not “authority” or “power” of hell, but GATES of hell.

Which one of the six churches listed above is trying to either get into hell, or get out of hell? If the Church of Matthew 16:18 (whatever church it is) is trying to get into hell, then the gates of hell can not prevail against it. It will get into hell. If on the other hand, the Church of Matthew 16:18 is trying to get out of Hell, then the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. It will get out of Hell.

Or, is it that there had already been a Church (an “ekklesia’)locked up in the center of the earth when Christ spoke those words, “captive,” and Christ went to the center of the earth, preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19), and when He was Resurrected (”thou shalt not leave my sould in hell” - Acts 2:27; Psalm 16:10) He LED CAPTIVITY CAPIVE (Ephesians 4; Psalms 68), using the the KEYS to get out and take the captives with Him. The Old Testament believers?

More soon.

10,932 posted on 07/01/2008 11:07:43 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
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