Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
About 99.99% (at a conservative estimate) of what they say doesn't even come close. Their personal opinions don't count.
You seem to miss the term "faith and morals," these are specific areas, not EVERYTHING.
I'm curious, what MORAL teachings of the Catholic Church are you opposed to? I know that many Protestants have relaxed or even abandoned their opposition to divorce, contraception, abortion, ordination of women and homosexuality. So, which of the Church's moral teachings do YOU disagree with?
I need your help and, since you have so much love to spare, I'm sure you will give this help.
I have read each and every of the more than 1,000 posts on this thread and can not recall any of "the enemy" claiming "...that to Love others, on earth or in heaven, is taking away from God."
Please point out a few of your examples of this thinking.
Come on. We’ve all seen this poster in action. Do any of us think they would let the truth stand in the way of a “mine’s bigger than your?”
Wasn't she a stripper? ;o)
But truly the one and only Great Commandment is an absolute. We must love God surpassingly above all else.
To God be the glory, not man, never man!
I can understand how this would happen, especially when the children are young. Let's be honest. In today's society, it is so much more tantalizing to leave the Catholic Church for a denomination that does not frown on artificial birth control or the decision not to reproduce. And like the Protestants, we also have families that come into the Church, like this one.
Good point!
That’s the beauty of doing this online, it’s easy to say that your entire town was Catholic and then one day, they just all quit the Church at once.
Sado-evangelism at its finest!
I wasn’t referring so much to a “nuclear family” of a father, mother and young children. It was this idea of a large family of adult brothers, sisters, spouses, etc. doing it all at once, especially within throughout a neighborhood. If what Dr. E. mentioned is true, the local priest was obviously doing something very wrong.
But then I might have to label it with some RC labels and that would appear to make it personal! LOL.
Naw. I’m happy with my tagline.
Well, one of the anti-Catholics on FR would like people to believe that he is a porn star. In fact his FReeper homepage links to pornography.
In my “anecdotal experience” I agree with you about the difference in the two groups.
I believe that is also a significant difference. Of all the converts to the Catholic Church that I personally know, I can’t think of any who did not acknowledge the value of their Christian life before their entrance into the Church. They don’t make it a practice to denounce their Protestant roots. Thank God. They are better Catholics witnesses because of that attitude.
I’ve observed that it usually happens that way.
I’ve met tons of ex-Catholics in the homeschooling groups. And tons of converts to the RCC. You should hear the things said about Protestants by them! One man has told me never to go to a Protestant church for fear that they will pollute my children. Yikes!
Can we agree that all who leave the Catholic Church and become Protestant are essentially phonies who leave for selfish reasons and all who leave a Protestant Church for the Catholic Church do so for pure and holy reasons?
Extended families, six or seven brothers and sisters, and their spouses and children all at once?
When “verbal”
is left off the front of
2 X 4
it is bearing false witness.
Pure and simple. Brazenly clear case.
Seriously?
What an excellent analysis, explanation.
100% correct, imho. thanks.
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