The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Ping to 1,038.

[Petronski]

Unmitigated hogwash all over again.

I change my mind: THIS one is your best tagline candidate yet.

[Petronski]

The Bereans didn't make up this method of learning. Calvin didn't make it up. Protestants didn't make it up. The Bible tells us how to learn and profit by the words of God.

Just going by what you've capitalized here, I guess you bow to Bereans, Calvin, Protestants, the Bible and God.

[wagglebee]

Forgive my skepticism, but I’ve always found the whole family leaving the Church en masse thing a little suspect. I’m not saying that it’s never happened, but I’ve never met any and your explanation just sounds a little too convenient (ALL of your neighbors were devout Catholics and just up and left the Church and took their entire families with them).

[netmilsmom]

I know just as many former Protestants including my hubby, but do you know the difference between the two groups?

Former Protestants don’t spend their time on Political websites slamming Catholic doctrine. They are satisfied to know that they made the right decisions for themselves. God Love them!!!!

[netmilsmom]

Stepford Wives.

[mgist]

I think some of the anti-Catholic bigots who disparage and deprecate Mary so obsessively are actually intimidated by her example and need to tear her down . . .

No, I think they really believe these things, but it is certainly the enemy that tries to decieve people into beleiving that Jesus could be jealous of his loving mother, or that our love of all things associated with God is somehow evil. There is also the problem that sometimes much of our practices are done more out of tradition and the original Love quotient isn't experienced by some Catholics in name only.

Catholics have been given so many wonderfull gifts from God and many of us our like spoiled brats who completely take them for granted. I know I did, I certainly appreciate and understand things so much better now. My Protestant convert friends are some of the best Catholics. They appreciate God's gifts more than some of us who have always had them.

[wagglebee]

As God wills, by His grace, for His glory.

One more thing, If God "wills" that Catholics leave the Church, then why is it taking so long? Why are there so few Calvinists? There are more Catholics than Protestants in Switzerland of all places! Why do Catholics leave the Church only to return a while later with a huge sense of relief?

All the time we read stories of very prominent and well known Protestant clergymen and theologians converting to Catholicism. Why do we NEVER hear of the reverse? Who was the last bishop or cardinal to leave the Church? Who was the last published theologian to leave?

[wagglebee]

Former Protestants don’t spend their time on Political websites slamming Catholic doctrine. They are satisfied to know that they made the right decisions for themselves. God Love them!!!!

Nor do the tell their still-Protestant relatives that they are damned or anything else along those lines.

[papertyger]

It "differs" in that I am doing the reading and thinking and comparing the words of Scripture to Scripture for myself with my own two eyes and ears.

Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear THE LORD, and depart from evil. Proverbs 3:7

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Proverbs 12:15

All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but THE LORD weigheth the spirits. Proverbs 16:2

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but THE LORD pondereth the hearts. Proverbs 21:2

There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 30:12

Yeah, that's a real good plan you got there.

Do I always get it right? No.

But you certainly always *act* like you've got it right, so what's the difference?

I've known literally dozens and dozens of former Catholics who finally broke down and opened their Bibles and read them for themselves and were converted to the truth found in the Gospel that men are saved by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone for God's glory alone.

And I've known literally hundreds of Bible-only types who are carried about by every wind of doctrine. It often takes a long time for these poor people to figure out the lack of spiritual power with Reformed traditions is endemic.

[Petronski]

Why do we NEVER hear of the reverse? Who was the last bishop or cardinal to leave the Church? Who was the last published theologian to leave?

Well, there was that fake nun...

[Petronski]

There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 30:12

They have vanity plates on their cars that read "ELECT."

[papertyger]

I've known literally dozens and dozens and dozens former protestants who finally broke down and opened their Bibles and read them for themselves and were converted to the truth found in the Gospel about the Church founded by Christ and the wonderful gifts of the Seven Blessed Sacraments He presents to us in the Catholic Church, including His Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Amen, brother. Preach it!

I once was blind, BUT NOW I SEE!

[Petronski]

Former Protestants don’t spend their time on Political websites slamming Catholic doctrine.

The old "Proselytizing-2x4-to-the-head of Love."

Thank you Calvin may I have another!?!

[OLD REGGIE]

"... but to see that requires giving up the notion that we neither inhale nor exhale without looking over our shoulders for the Vatican's okay."

And some believe you are instructed to submit your will and intellect to the Bishops, the Pope, and the Magisterium. Further, anything they say or write is a teaching. Now where did they get that idea?

Canon 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Canon 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

Or, are you not covered by The Code Of Canon Law?

[wagglebee]

They have vanity plates on their cars that read "ELECT."

I'm sure the Clintons do too, the Calvinists should feel privileged to be in such auspicious company.

[tiki]

Nor do the tell their still-Protestant relatives that they are damned or anything else along those lines.

But it doesn’t keep us from praying for them. Honestly, it is like I became rich but I can’t share my wealth with those I love the most. I don’t despair for their souls, I feel bad that they are missing out on encounters with Jesus now.

In March my sister was disillusioned with her church and her faith was failing. I recognized immediately that it was really her faith in humanity that was failing. We talked a little, not enough, and I sent her off with ‘Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth’.

[maryz]

but something which is largely a figment of their own imagination.

Some do seem to spend too much time in their own heads (and their own interpretations!) so to speak -- must be hot and stuffy there, like what Chesterton says about the insane (from memory): We say of the lunatic that he has holes in his head; rather we should say that he doesn't have enough holes in his head -- he should let some fresh air in! :)

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and questions, dear brother in Christ!

I see the Revelation 3:9 verse alongside the golden calf episode in Exodus 32:

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which [are] in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring [them] unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which [were] in their ears, and brought [them] unto Aaron. And he received [them] at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

And when Aaron saw [it], he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow [is] a feast to the LORD. - Exodus 32:1-5

Aaron and the other Israelis evidently thought they could worship (feast to) God in front of the golden calf much like some people think they can worship God at the feet of angels or other people alive or dead.

But God will have none of that.

And God spake all these words, saying, I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. - Exodus 20:1-6

And again,

And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. - Revelation 22:8-9

When Jesus tells those who are of the synagogue of Satan that He will force them to worship at the feet of those He loves – it is a horrible punishment. They will not be allowed to worship God directly. They are pushed away. They are rejected.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. - Revelation 3:9

It is never ever ever ok for any of us, the adopted children of God, to let someone worship at our feet, even if their hearts are intent on worshiping God (like the Israelis before the calf.) That is why the angel was so indignant with John: "see thou do it not ... worship God!"

Only when God Himself passes judgment on the synagogue of Satan, rejecting them, and forces them to worship at our feet will it be ok. God's will, not man's.

It is never ever ever ok to worship before any one or any thing. We are to worship God. Period.

There is only ONE Great Commandment:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. – Matthew 22:37-38

And if we don’t get that right, nothing else we do - no matter how theologically correct - will matter.

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. – Revelation 2:1-5

It is a horrible thing to be denied the Light of God (the candlestick.)

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[papertyger]

I think some of the anti-Catholic bigots who disparage and deprecate Mary so obsessively are actually intimidated by her example and need to tear her down to avoid feeling so bad about themselves

I think it's because any time a Catholic does something undeniably righteous, it is a witness against their unbelief.

Remember Korah is a model of apostasy, and his sin was to despise the authority of Moses.