Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
The Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharist, the communion wafer and the altar wine are transformed and really become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Have you ever met anyone who has found this Catholic doctrine to be a bit hard to take?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. When Jesus spoke about eating his flesh and drinking his blood in John 6, his words met with less than an enthusiastic reception. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (V 52). "This is a hard saying who can listen to it?" (V60). In fact so many of his disciples abandoned him over this that Jesus had to ask the twelve if they also planned to quit. It is interesting that Jesus did not run after his disciples saying, "Don't go — I was just speaking metaphorically!" How did the early Church interpret these challenging words of Jesus? Interesting fact. One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism. Why? You guessed it. They heard that this sect regularly met to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Did the early Christians say: "wait a minute, it's only a symbol!"? Not at all. When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: "For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages. In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I'd look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I'd still substantially be the same ole guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can't be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ's body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the "sub-stance", what "stands-under" the surface, came to be called "transubstantiation."
What makes this happen? The power of God's Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: "This is my Body, This is my Blood." Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read "Spirit") whips over the surface of the water and God's Word resounds. "Let there be light" and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: "you are what you eat?" The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate can you get? We receive the Lord's body into our physical body that we may become Him whom we receive! Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that's why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi.
bttt
Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder, it seems. Not all of us see it the same as you do.
As Scripture declares, NONE IS RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE. (from post 424.)
With this:
Scripture makes of Enoch a particularly special case.
No worries.
God bless you.
Please remember your Bible citations when making these claims of authority...
The Bible talks about a generation that knoweth not God. I think we’re in it now!
There’s no talking to her... she’s busy...
Good response, RM.
My sense is that we know when folks are trying to attack us and when they are trying to just have a consersation with us.
On HIMSELF. HE was the Rock.
Amen, trebb.
That's what I mean by "begging the question".
I don't think you intend anything bad. I'm not saying that.
But sooner or later the conversation between Catholics and Protestants (and people who eschew denominations) is going to come down to ecclesiology. And that's going to come down to the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the Church (and to "what is 'the Church' anyway?")
I agree with pgyanke that the Bible taken by itself is "out of context". To say it in a nice, weaselly Catholic way, "Out of 'the fullness' of context," because I think the Church/Sacred Tradition/Individual Piety/Bible/etc. make one integral package.
On the other hand, if I understand you, speaking for another imnportant point of view, you think any concrete organization, with - you know - real estate, an address, a bank account and a contract with a publishing house is ESSENTIALLY a hindrance to the Holy Spirit, despite being able to assist with things like producing Bibles (and translations thereof) and a place where some really great and some really awful hymns are sung.
AS an effort to carry that conversation along a little I'd offer this: Christian Matrimony is a "School of charity." It's the reality of the person next you that gives you the opportunity to practice charity where it's hard. It's a version of Linus's complain,"I love mankind, it's people I can't stand."
When I was a reserve deputy, by definition I was subordinate to everyone else. That was easy most of the time because very nearly everyone else knew the job better than I did. But when I was subordinate to someone with a distinct penchant for trouble making or with some incompetence (how do you explain to your superior that he is not fastening the belly-chain correctly?) THEN was when I had a chance to see what humility was all about.
Supporting a theologically and pastorally bumble-footed pastor without stomping all over my principles is tricky and demanding. And it was good for me to try.
If I remove myself from the society of others, one commandment I will not get a lot of practice in is "Love thy neighbor". For some people that's a vocation. I don't think so for all.
The above is not meant to be conclusive or even an argument. It's an attempt to state the other position, that's all.
What authority?.. What citations?..
It’s more perceptible when the disrespect is paid to you.
mad dawg, none of us will ever be perfect, so don’t agonize too much about it. We can strive to be more perfect than we were yesterday but even that isn’t our job, it’s God’s. HE sees us as perfect when we have the indwelling Christ who IS perfect. So relax.
And who or what interprets scripture for you? The church ‘fathers?’ Who?
Exactly.
Thanks.
Ask Jesus. He’s the Living Word.
The part of that which is most instructive and edifying to my Christian walk is the part that says
NONE IS RIGHTEOUS; NO, NOT ONE.
That’s the part I need to pay most attention to.
I haven’t seen any modern Enoch’s running around loose to be envious of. And envy would be forbidden, anyway.
I’d rather have you explain why it’s evidently so difficult for you to accept what Christ said when he said:
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE.
The very first time I received the gift of tongues, I prayed for over 45 minutes. It was an amazing experience. I don’t do it very often anymore, but it truly was a wonderful gift when I needed it.
Excellent point.
BTW, folks, we can have a RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE thread any time we want . . . And we can all dogpile the offenders any time we want.
Just a thought.
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