Posted on 04/09/2008 12:36:13 PM PDT by annalex
I don't care if you repent, Freddie. You climb in a hole and proceed to dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and then expect my compassion for your trap, all the while spitting on my faith from your abyss, while you continue to dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig . . .
Should be:
You espouse false doctrine.
My post was hijacked by a spellchecker.
Thank you for sharing your insights and concerns!
Did I claim so?
Your logical gyrations are so cute . . . speaking in short bites that aren’t tied to anything. Flatly declaring that you hate "false doctrine” is merely amusing.
That’s my attitude, I don’t care on iota about Mary’s virginity post the birth of Christ.
I find it incredulous that Catholics actually have a theory on the subject, much less a doctrine.
What is the possible relevance of that? Would you care to "declare absolutely" that NO Baptists get drunk, slap their kids around, steal from their employers, or sleep with people other than their spouses?
Of course not. Catholics are all sinners. Baptists are all sinners. That shouldn't come as a surprise.
So the question ought to be not, "What does one confused or kooky Catholic somewhere do that I can dredge up?" but "What does the Catholic Church teach?"
Does the Catholic Church teach that the Pope is to be worshipped? Nope, certainly not.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is equal to God? Nope. In fact, perhaps the most "Marian" saint of all, St. Louis Marie de Montfort, began his book on Mary by describing her as "next to God, nothing".
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary ought to be given the sort of worship which by right belongs to God? Nope.
Three strikes, you're out.
Incidentally, most of the decrees of the Council of Trent don't even mention Mary.
Thanks for your kind comment. It was writing that post . . . that I realized that you are that person for me . . . frightful as it may be to you! LOL . . . the believer that I most resonate with across a broad spectrum of Christian belief.
Thanks tons. Glad to the max that you’re around . . .
Don’t have many Christians I can respect and admire greatly in my local network at this time. So many churches seem to be such a mess.
Anyway—thanks for all you do and are to so many of us.
LORD JESUS, Please touch Angel Gal’s neice in all the ways most needed. Hold her particularly close this day, this week. Please Give her every provision needed for your best and highest in her life at this time. In Jesus’ Name.
I didn’t realize so many RC’s hereon had such a hobby of being WRONG so often. Curious, that.
1. Not keeping score or points. God is. He says blessed are you when men revile etc. I just note when such a blessed event has occurred and thank ya’ll for contributing to my heavenly points. I don’t know how God calculates such things but I believe He means what He says about such things and consider myself blessed.
2. I often don’t know whether to laugh or cry over such outrageous statements as seem to routinely tumble out of the RC edifice . . . . but I can count on The Lord to reward for enduring assaults by folks who make a mockery of His Word and His priorities.
3. God knows I don’t hate anyone on FR. And I certainly don’t hate even the fiercest and most irrational of the RC reps hereon. Hate is just not something I’ve tended to give mental air time and emotional energy to.
4. Besides, folks of all stripes are still made in God’s image regardless of the hideous damage they may have been doing to that image over the years. Loving people makes the most sense as well as being the 2nd most important commandment.
5. There are gamey aspects to the Protty/RC exchanges hereon. But what you described would not be anything of interest, to me and certainly not a game.
The Bible says that we are ALL saints and priests if we are saved. If my cousin wants to confess Jesus as Savior at a weekend Bar-B-Q, Then they can confess in front of me or my family and they are saved. If they have a wreck and die on the way home, they have salvation. I don't have to have robes and collars to wittiness a repentance of sin and declaration of faith.
My authority comes from God, just as it did to John, Paul, Peter, Luke, Matthew, etc. My caveat comes with the warning that teachers who teach falsehood will be judged more harshly. If I'm not sure of something then I would ask for the Spirit to make it clear, and if not, I say "I'm not sure". Just because a guy in a collar says I'm wrong, means nothing. I listen to what he says, but the matter isn't settled until the Holy Spirit makes it crystal clear. There are many subjects that I would be hesitant to talk about to someone, especially someone who is just starting to learn, but the things I know,.....I know. Just as the Scripture says, "This is me, not God," They were able to say it was more advantageous to be unmarried to do what they were doing, but if temptation was too strong, by all means, get married. That doesn't mean God decreed that they were to be celibate, they made it clear it was them talking. Just as it was told to Timothy that a little wine was good for the stomach doesn't mean God says you can be a drunk. It was a letter to help him and plainly not "God Breathed".
There is absolutely nothing wrong with teachers teaching the Scripture, but I have sat under many that couldn't answer the most basic questions and who, when they spoke, were plainly teaching error and it usually had something to do with church doctrine, not the written Word. I have also sat under some of the finest teachers, IMHO, in America. You can tell they have explored Scripture and had the answers to some of the most vexing questions revealed to them by God, not at seminary. I attend a Baptist church, but I am a Christian, not a Baptist. I just find the Baptists and their teaching more in line with what I believe the Scripture says. We have disagreements, but I don't want to be told, "Who are you to question so and so that has taught for 40 years?" He could have taught wrong for 40 years.
The reason I'm not a Catholic is because I believe what they teach is error, so much so, to the point of being a cult. That doesn't mean a Catholic can't know the Truth, or can't go to Heaven, but it usually ends up with them defending the Catholic dogma and has nothing to do with Jesus. It is dangerous to pray to Mary( what the thread started as) and other relics. It is strictly forbidden in Scripture. I don't really care to discuss some Bishops writing from the 14th century over some topic that is plainly stated in the Bible. It would be like me trying to cure fever with leeches because thats what they believed back then. I find it stimulating to discuss topics with knowledgeable people and weigh their answers with what I read in Scripture. Most of the stuff doesn't have anything to do with SALVATION, however. It is usually over side issues that are good to know but aren't critical.
Once you understand God as a Father, then you can understand how you would feel if your Son Gave His life on the cross in a horrible death, and then someone comes along and is praying to statues and icons. It is blasphemy, plain and simple. Just picture your son dying in Iraq and some liberal saying he is as patriotic as your son while throwing feces on your son's grave. You wouldn't be happy. That just infuriates Catholics, but a simple reading of the Bible will clear it up for them. Hanging on to traditions of men is EXACTLY what Jesus came to condemn. That is why we have the Bible in the first place. The reason Luther broke from the church was because he was able to read Scripture and compare to what the teaching of the church was. It's no different today.
As far as my children being bastards, that has been said to me at least 3 times because I won't convert to Catholicism and force them to be raised Catholic. I suppose the mafia were good Catholic boys with a ticket to Heaven because they belonged to the Catholic church. The denomination won't save you. I've been told Joesph Smith is equal to Jesus, and if I don't speak in tongues, I don't have the Holy Spirit. And yes, I live in East Texas and have been told that I need to handle a poisonous snake to see if I get bit. You would be surprised at the people that REALLY believe different things and can back it up with Scripture. Just remember, Satan came to Jesus to trick Him in the wilderness and quoted Scripture to the Man who wrote it. Anything can be misused and misunderstood. Catholics are free to pray to Mary, if they want to, I'm just saying it's an insult to God. The Bible tells us to love God with all our hearts, souls, and minds. Mary was a willing vessel, but she is not God. Our God is a jealous God.
Wow.
What a lengthy post.
Regardless of length of post, the comments that you made regarding praying to Mary are simply incorrect and demonstrate a gross ignorance (common in the anti-Catholic crowd) of actual Catholic faith.
It has been said many, many times:
Catholics do not pray to Mary or the Saints as a form of worship. Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints as a form of asking a trusted friend for assistance. To over-simplify, think of it as calling up a friend at work and asking them to speak to the boss since the friend is at the office and you are, say, on a business trip.
Don’t be blinded by the ignorant lies told in so many protestant churches.
Something that’s always intrigued me is the fact that protestant churches preach against Catholicism fairly often, but I’ve never heard a negative word about protestants while at Mass.
Attacks Christian right incompassing everyone from Rush to James Dobson. Seems to promote new form of Christianity based on hatred of those who disagree with Robert McElvane who works at Millsaps College in my home town of Jackson, MS. He attacks Catholisim. I suppose some things he says are true but altogether is blasphomy and alerts ms to Jesus words of beware those who come in my name.
By your measure ,I suppose that you must find it really amazing that Christianity was able to spread through extreme persecution without the fully canonized Bible for hundreds of years
The reality IS that God gave His Gospel orally first. The Apostles gave it to others orally first, who shared it with the community at large. This was written down and shared with the future communities. The Bible is not ever shown as something given to each individual of the community. If you want to understand how the early Church did things, you would know that they complied with the leaders of the community.Read Acts of the Apostles,God did not hand out scrolls to everyone
I might add that even the missionaries of today spread Christianity through loving others rather than having Bible in hand and shouting out Bible verses.
Christ's love abiding in us through acts of charity and loving our neighbors moves hearts more than words do.
Love must come first in order to be able to teach the gospel NOT the other way around, and this,Dear friend, is the foundation of Christianity that our Blessed Lord made SEEN before the good book.
I wish you a Blessed day!
This isn't ignorance of the Catholic faith, it's your ignorance of the Word of God. You have been TOLD by the church that it is praying to a friend for assistance, but God doesn't need an intercessor between you and Him. It is CLEAR in the Bible that you are to pray to God in the name above all names, Jesus.
There is not one instance of any of the apostles or Jesus invoking any other name in Scripture. Jesus Himself said to pray "Our Father, which art in Heaven". It is a tradition of men and in ERROR. It has evolved into Mary had no other children when she clearly DID, and now she is supposed to have just ascended to Heaven? Made up myth! That is Mary worship made up out of someones imagination.
I suppose it depends if one is using the DAFFYNITIONS of the RC edifice or the normal definitions more reality based Christian groups use.
If we use the WORD OF GOD as described IN The WORD OF GOD, then the above statement is wholesale false AS
THE WORD OF GOD makes abundantly clear.
The RC edifice Rubber Bible seems to read: Also, one would seem to think that Holy Spirit took a vacation from reminding, bringing to mind Scripture that had been received by hearing . . . EXCEPT WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY THE DOCTRINES AND TRADITIONS OF MEN THROUGH THE RC MAGICSTERICAL AND TONS OF MARYOLATRY via the same charlatans.
One seems also expected to believe that absolutely no one was literate enough to take notes in meetings. Nor copy letters distributed . . . that only the RC magicsterical's power mongering lock on Scripture 400 years later offered any source of Scripture at all. What balderdash.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Act 11:1 Soon the news reached the apostles and other believers* in Judea that the Gentiles had received the word of God.
The following week almost the entire city turned out to hear them preach the word of the Lord.
Act 15:35 Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch to assist many others who were teaching and preaching the word of the Lord there.
Act 16:32 Then they shared the word of the Lord with him and all who lived in his household.
Act 20:32 "And now I entrust you to God and the word of his grace--his message that is able to build you up and give you an inheritance with all those he has set apart for himself.
1Cr 14:4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church
2Cr 4:2 We reject all shameful and underhanded methods. We do not try to trick anyone, and we do not distort the word of God. We tell the truth before God, and all who are honest know that.
Eph 6:17 Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
1Th 1:8 And now the word of the Lord is ringing out from you to people everywhere, even beyond Greece, for wherever we go we find people telling us about your faith in God. We don't need to tell them about it,
1Th 2:13 And we will never stop thanking God that when we preached his message to you, you didn't think of the words we spoke as being just our own. You accepted what we said as the very word of God--which, of course, it was. And this word continues to work in you who believe.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
2Ti 2:15 Work hard so God can approve you. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God is full of living power. It is sharper than the sharpest knife, cutting deep into our innermost thoughts and desires. It exposes us for what we really are.
1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again. Your new life did not come from your earthly parents because the life they gave you will end in death. But this new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord will last forever."* And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.
1Pe 2:8 And the Scriptures also say, "He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that will make them fall."* They stumble because they do not listen to God's word or obey it, and so they meet the fate that has been planned for them.
1Jo 2:5 But those who obey God's word really do love him. That is the way to know whether or not we live in him. [The Rubber Bible version is: 1Jo 2:5 But those who obey God's word; AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, ALL THE DOGMATIC PONTIFICATIONS, ORDERS, RITUALS, MARYOLATRY AND OTHER EDIFICE IDOLATRIES AND BLASPHEMIES OF THE RC MAGICSTERICAL) really do love THE ONE AND ONLY POLITICAL POWER-MONGERNG EDIFICE WORTHY TO BE LOVED, That is the way to know whether or not we live AS WORTHY SERFS OF THE RC MAGICSTERICAL. However, only then, all you can count on is purgatory . . . unless sufficient prayers are paid for or donated by sufficient numbers of your fans. Then the Magicsterical MIGHT consent to give you a transfer ticket o Heaven proper.]
1Jo 2:14 I have written to you, children, because you have known the Father. I have written to you who are mature because you know Christ, the one who is from the beginning. I have written to you who are young because you are strong with God's word living in your hearts, and you have won your battle with Satan.
Rev 19:13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus, for proclaiming the word of God. And I saw the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
This isn't ignorance of the Catholic faith, it's your ignorance of the Word of God. You have been TOLD by the church that it is praying to a friend for assistance, but God doesn't need an intercessor between you and Him. It is CLEAR in the Bible that you are to pray to God in the name above all names, Jesus.
There is not one instance of any of the apostles or Jesus invoking any other name in Scripture. Jesus Himself said to pray "Our Father, which art in Heaven". It is a tradition of men and in ERROR. It has evolved into Mary had no other children when she clearly DID, and now she is supposed to have just ascended to Heaven? Made up myth! That is Mary worship made up out of someones imagination.
INDEED. THANKS. GOOD POINTS.
This whole thread began with one of the most outrageously illogical; outrageously absurd notions I could have imagined in my worst nightmare. It's mind boggling that anyone would want to be associated with it unless they have a masochistic obsession with humiliating themselves.
It's akin to saying something like . . . THE ONLY WAY FOR UNITY AND PEACE BETWEEN JIHADI'S AND CHRISTENDOM IS FOR CHRISTIANS TO ACCEPT THE SACRAMENT OF BEHEADING AS THE GLORIOUS LIGHT-BRINGING RITUAL THAT IT IS."
It must take some collection of demonically influenced political powermongering magicsterical to come up with such overtly absurd irrational nonsense. Oppressed, possessed individuals just wouldn't be able to be THAT absurd and irrational--it takes a collection of such, evidently.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.