Posted on 03/14/2008 10:02:39 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg
I have seen many discussions on the theology of Justification and Salvation. Many Protestants, in particular, tend to believe that the soul can be saved through Faith alone, Sola fide, and doing good works plays no part is Salvation. This is reinforced in particular by the books of the New Testament like Romans and Galatians.
Other denominations, such as those in the Catholic, Orthodox, and Restorationist Churches think that one must both be Faithful and do good works. This is supported in particular by the Epistle of James.
here is a list of quotes supporting and opposing the Sola fide doctrine (from wikipedia):
Supporting:
Psalms 84:12: "O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you." Isaiah 64:6: "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. And all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." 2 Chronicles 20:20: "Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld..." Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Luke 5:20:"When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." " Luke 18:10-14:"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." Luke 23:40-43: "But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." " John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 6:28-29: "Therefore they said to Him, 'What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.'" John 5:24: "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 6:40: "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:47: "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." Acts 10:43: "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'" Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..." Romans 1:17-18: "Therefore the just shall live by faith. The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness." Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." Romans 4:5: "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." Romans 5:1: "...having been justified by faith..." Romans 10:9: "That if you shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." Romans 11:6: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Romans 14:23: "...and everything that does not come from faith is sin." Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Philippians 3:9: "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." Galatians 2:16: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 3:1-3; 9-14; 21-25: "O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you; did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? ... So then they who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Because as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: because it is written, 'Cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to be done'. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith'. And the law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them'. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. So that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, certainly righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up from the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith..." Galatians 5:4,5: "Christ has become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Titus 3:5: "...he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit..."
Opposing:
Matthew 5:48 (part of the Expounding of the Law within the Sermon on the Mount): "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (compare Imitatio dei) Matthew 7:21 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:24-27 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." Matthew 12:36-37: "I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done." Matthew 19:17: ""Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."" Matthew 24:10-20 (part of the Olivet discourse): "Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 25:31-46 (part of The Sheep and the Goats): "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 28:19-20a (part of the Great Commission): "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Luke 8:21: " But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it." Luke 10:25-28: "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."" John 5:29: "And will come out--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." Romans 2:6,7; 13: "For he will repay according to each one's deeds. To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; for it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified." Romans 2:16: "on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." Galatians 6:7b-9: "A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." 1 Corinthians 10:12: "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 13:2-3: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:13: "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love." 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil." James 1:22: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." James 2 (excerpts): "... What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ... Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Phillipians 2:12-13: "... work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work." 1 Peter 1:17: "Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning." 1 John 2:3-7: "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard." Revelation 14:12-13: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labours, for their deeds follow them.’ Revelation 20:13: "All the dead were judged according to their deeds." Revelation 22:12: "Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds
““Years ago even the poorest village in the “Third world” had a TV in a tree and now they have cell phones and computers”
Not true.
______________________________________________
Well, it is true...
but that was not my point...
verity had said...
swmobuffalo
Have you forgotten that there are many people on this planet who have not been exposed to Christianity and never will be?
9 posted on 03/14/2008 10:16:56 AM PDT by verity (”Lord, what fools these mortals be!”)
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And so I answered that god can use modern technology...”
So you dismiss the facts with “absolute nonsense” and disappear. Perhaps you could justify your response with some rebuttal using facts?
Really?
Luke 23:42 (King James Version)
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom
Scripture records that the thief believed that Christ was Lord and that He had the power to save him from death.
Or did you think he meant some other kind of Lord and some other kingdom..?
By the standards you (and Dr. Dave) apply, no one will make it to heaven.
No, not one...
The whole gist of Romans, Galatians 3 and 4, and many other New Testament passages that refer to faith, grace, and the law, also refer to Abraham and the pact. No one ever asks, “Why is Abraham always mentioned? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or some other great patriarch?” No one ever asks which specific law is referred to? There are over 600 laws in the Torah (Genesis to Deuteronomy). The reason no one ever asks is because no one ever reads the Torah and thus don’t really understand the New Testament even though they think they do. It’s like going to the movies at half time. How can you understand the end of the movie if you didn’t see the beginning? How can anyone understand the New when Paul is speaking about Old? Yet no one reads the Old. I have a very simplistic question before going any farther. Why does the word circumcision appear so many times in the New Testament? Why does Paul keep referring to that? What is he talking about 430 years in Galatians 3:17? I have never met anyone that can answer these types of questions. I’m curious if there are any real bible students here?
Another organization is Gospel For Asia.
, End of story.
Nope, just the beginning...
Why don't you guys just give up and admit the scriptures teach BOTH...
‘There is no caveat to salvation that you must do works. The Christian does them out of his love for God and His Son.’
True, and the works he does are simply the ones that the Holy Spirit has set before him to do.
‘You cannot live like the devil and end up with the angels.’
‘A deathbed confession would be an exception to that. The thief on the cross is an example.’
Well, which is it? Your following statements would indicate that your first one is false.
save-bump
‘Why does the word circumcision appear so many times in the New Testament?’
Because it was the outward sign of obedience to the Lord. Paul used it to describe the way one’s heart should be inclined towards Christ and thereby demonstrate outwardly that one is a Child of God.
What is he talking about 430 years in Galatians 3:17?
The gap between Abraham and Moses to show that Abraham’s salvation could not have depended on Mosaic Law since he wasn’t in possession of it. God’s promise to Abraham was fulfilled in Jesus.
‘Why does the word circumcision appear so many times in the New Testament?’
Because it was the outward sign of obedience to the Lord. Paul used it to describe the way one’s heart should be inclined towards Christ and thereby demonstrate outwardly that one is a Child of God.
What is he talking about 430 years in Galatians 3:17?
The gap between Abraham and Moses to show that Abraham’s salvation could not have depended on Mosaic Law since he wasn’t in possession of it. God’s promise to Abraham was fulfilled in Jesus.
sorry for the double
‘Why does the word circumcision appear so many times in the New Testament?’
The circumcision of anyone was a sign that they were a physical heir to the land covenant Hashem made with Abraham. This is very important to understand if one is to understand the New Testament.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Part of the law of Moses written in the book of the law of Moses related to the curses that were under the law. If the Israelites (all 13 tribes since Manesseh received a portion) kept Hashems commandments they would receive blessings in the land. If they disobeyed they were to receive the curses.
Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Because Solomon began idolatrous practices, he received the curse and lost 10 of the Tribes in 931 before zero.
1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
1Ki 11:2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
1Ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
1Ki 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
1Ki 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
1Ki 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
1Ki 11:8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
1Ki 11:9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
1Ki 11:10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded.
1Ki 11:11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
Jeroboam, a great grand-child of Joseph and Ephraim, became King over the 10 tribes referred to in the Bible as the House of Israel (Gen 48:16). Solomon retained his own tribe, Judah, plus the tribe of Benjamin.
1Ki 11:28 And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph.
1Ki 11:30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
1Ki 11:31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
1Ki 11:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David’s sake, and for Jerusalem’s sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
Jeroboam and the 10 tribes of the house of Israel began idolatrous practices.
1Ki 12:28 Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
1Ki 12:29 And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan.
1Ki 12:30 And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan.
As a result they lost the land of their inheritance of the land covenant that Hashem made with Abraham. They were cast out thus receiving the curse of law of the book of Moses. The Assyrian Empire in 721 before zero dispersed them and as of today have not returned to their lost inheritance.
Deu 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
2Ki 17:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
2Ki 17:7 For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods,
2Ki 17:23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
The whole New Testament is about the death of Yeshua and his redeeming the descendents of the forefathers who had received the curses of the law. That is what the subject of faith as all about. If one didn’t believe that Yeshua had died for those idolatrous sins, then he was still subject to the curses. The Pharisees fit that category. If one did accept Yeshua as his redeemer, then he would no longer be under the curse of the law (Gal 3:13). Furthermore, a physical circumcision was not necessary to prove that he was an heir. All he needed was to have faith. However, he still had to obey the law. One can not enter Yeshua’s earthly kingdom unless he obeys the laws of the kingdom. All nations have laws. Yeshua’s laws (the 10 commandments) are still in force. We read all about that in James 2:10-26. Only faith will not save you or permit you to enter the gates of the kingdom unless you keep the law. Faith without works is dead. Don’t let Gal 2:16 throw you off. There he is talking about the land covenant. Not the 10 commandments. The whole theme of the New testament is about going back to the promised land of the Abrahamic Covenant. Not many however, will return. They’re too busy waiting for a non-Scriptural rapture and many other things like not keeping the 7th day Sabbath which will be observed in the New earth.
What is he talking about 430 years in Galatians 3:17?
The 430 years, that came before the law at Sinai in 1446 before zero, was the year that the land covenant was confirmed by Abraham’s faith when he took Issaac to be sacrificed in 1876 when Isaac was 20 years old.
Blessings in your search for TRUTH
Romans 6:10 (Whole Chapter) The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
Hebrews 7:27 (Whole Chapter) Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Hebrews 10:10 (Whole Chapter) And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Notice the tenses in the following verse. "Has made" perfect, those who "being made" holy. Where there is forgiveness there is no sin, there is no accusation of sin. Therefore those who have placed their trust in God have passed from judgement to life. And they will never pass back, because the forgiveness never stops. He didn't make us perfect until the next time we are disobedient. He made us perfect forever. Not because we have become holy in our own right, but because we wear the imputed righteousness of Jesus.
Hebrews 10:14 (Whole Chapter) because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Colossians 1:22 (Whole Chapter) But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Obedience is a demonstration of love for the Father. But it does not save.
33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Faith in God over time produces the fruit of the spirit, which will eventually produce works. As love grows in our lives we will become obedient. But we don't have to fear making a mistake or an act of disobedience because live nor death can separate us from the love of God. We have been perfected forever in God's eyes. Now THAT's freedom!!!!
Christians who understand this are free to do what is right because they love God, not because they are still trying to earn their salavation which Jesus has provided.
OK but look at what the Father's will is...
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day"
If you believe in the Son, you have done the father's will and all else is forgiven.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. 12 posted on 03/14/2008 12:32:45 PM CDT by DannyTN
In context, it's the relationship. People who did works but did not believe were still rejected by God because He said, "I never knew you". The relationship is key. But once you are "adopted", that relationship doesn't stop simply because you make a mistake. Christians are not under the law. They are under grace. And they have a relationship with God that cannot be broken by anything.
Math 7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
‘All he needed was to have faith. However, he still had to obey the law.’
Contradicting requirements. No one save Christ has kept the Law.
‘Yeshua’s laws (the 10 commandments) are still in force.’
Abraham was not saved by the keeping the Ten Commandments, he didn’t have them.
‘Faith without works is dead.’
No doubt, but Eph 2:9-10 makes clear that works don’t save us. Further it makes clear that the we are created in Jesus Christ to do good works, but those works have been prepared in advance by God for us to do. God-centric, not man’s compliance centric.
Corr 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
As has capably been pointed out, the Thief on the cross was not under the new covenant.
You “saved by faith only” guys are wrong; you believe an incorrect doctrine.
Baptism is necessary, else Jesus would not have done it. Obedience is necessary, as Jesus has said.
Jesus: “Not everyone that saith Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom, but he that doeth the will of my Father in Heaven.
I am going to believe the words out of Jesus’s mouth above yours or anyone’s interpretation of Paul.
It would be nice to believe that “hey, I’m saved, I can relax now.” But that is a false belief.
It is as simple as can be: faith (grace) and works are both required. One alone is not enough; you will not live in God's presence.
You might as well expect to be a one-winged bird as to think that faith alone will return you to God.
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