Posted on 03/14/2008 10:02:39 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg
I have seen many discussions on the theology of Justification and Salvation. Many Protestants, in particular, tend to believe that the soul can be saved through Faith alone, Sola fide, and doing good works plays no part is Salvation. This is reinforced in particular by the books of the New Testament like Romans and Galatians.
Other denominations, such as those in the Catholic, Orthodox, and Restorationist Churches think that one must both be Faithful and do good works. This is supported in particular by the Epistle of James.
here is a list of quotes supporting and opposing the Sola fide doctrine (from wikipedia):
Supporting:
Psalms 84:12: "O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you." Isaiah 64:6: "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. And all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." 2 Chronicles 20:20: "Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld..." Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Luke 5:20:"When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." " Luke 18:10-14:"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other menrobbers, evildoers, adulterersor even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." Luke 23:40-43: "But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." " John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 6:28-29: "Therefore they said to Him, 'What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.'" John 5:24: "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 6:40: "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:47: "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." Acts 10:43: "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'" Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..." Romans 1:17-18: "Therefore the just shall live by faith. The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness." Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." Romans 4:5: "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." Romans 5:1: "...having been justified by faith..." Romans 10:9: "That if you shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." Romans 11:6: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Romans 14:23: "...and everything that does not come from faith is sin." Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Philippians 3:9: "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." Galatians 2:16: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 3:1-3; 9-14; 21-25: "O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you; did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? ... So then they who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Because as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: because it is written, 'Cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to be done'. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith'. And the law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them'. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. So that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, certainly righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up from the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith..." Galatians 5:4,5: "Christ has become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Titus 3:5: "...he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit..."
Opposing:
Matthew 5:48 (part of the Expounding of the Law within the Sermon on the Mount): "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (compare Imitatio dei) Matthew 7:21 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:24-27 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." Matthew 12:36-37: "I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done." Matthew 19:17: ""Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."" Matthew 24:10-20 (part of the Olivet discourse): "Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 25:31-46 (part of The Sheep and the Goats): "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 28:19-20a (part of the Great Commission): "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Luke 8:21: " But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it." Luke 10:25-28: "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."" John 5:29: "And will come out--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." Romans 2:6,7; 13: "For he will repay according to each one's deeds. To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; for it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified." Romans 2:16: "on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." Galatians 6:7b-9: "A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." 1 Corinthians 10:12: "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 13:2-3: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:13: "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love." 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil." James 1:22: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." James 2 (excerpts): "... What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ... Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Phillipians 2:12-13: "... work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work." 1 Peter 1:17: "Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning." 1 John 2:3-7: "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard." Revelation 14:12-13: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest from their labours, for their deeds follow them. Revelation 20:13: "All the dead were judged according to their deeds." Revelation 22:12: "Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Romans 1:20
What does this tell us?
Every human being is guilty before God, throughout history, and today. We know God's law. We don't need the Internet, or telephones, or this or that to know we are sinful. Or that sin is wrong. Believe me, everyone knows.
The movie the End of the Spear spoke a powerful message about a remote people who knew their warlike murder was wrong, but did it anyway. They almost killed each other off entirely. But - many of them were saved by Christ.
'I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jer. 31:33).
And this:
Jesus is the living Torah, the Law or word of God made flesh.
We know what to do. God wrote it in our hearts.
Some call is "conscious."
Well, it isn't Jimney Cricket on your shoulder. It is the Law of God written in the hearts of all human beings.
Christ even reminded us of this, the inherent law, and the overt law, of God:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:15
What we need to do is preach the Good News to the world. As Nana said, don't limit God.
Not one blessed thing. He didn't accept Jesus as his personal Savior. He didn't pray. He didn't repent. Perhaps he wasn't 'saved'.
Then, get off your behind in front of your computer and fulfill this:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mark 16:15
All of the world is condemned without Christ. But, God gives mercy to those he gives mercy too. Some hear His word, and the seed falls on good soil. You know the rest of the parable.
Christ also said His sheep hear His voice, did He not?
Those who are reached by God are reached by God's will.
Nothing can stop God.
But, not everyone is saved:
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7: 13-14
Wow!
So Christ lied?
"TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE"
(Luke 23:43)
I'll tell you this Mr. Lucky.
The god you believe in is not the same one I believe in.
Hello?
My apologies to Mr. Lucky!
Not one blessed thing. He didn't accept Jesus as his personal Savior. He didn't pray. He didn't repent. Perhaps he wasn't 'saved'.
Amazing - and incredibly sad.
James 2:
17 - Even so faith,if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
These verses provide the simplest genesis of the concept of “saving” Grace.
Jesus answered what is the work God desires of man, when He was asked. Paul explained what happens AFTER the human spirit is cleansed and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell ... ‘be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.’ THAT is the ‘work’ which God does and without which the mouthing of believing in Jesus is dead profession. Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that you must be born again. The exchange in which this came up was wrapped up in child birth, etc. A womb-bound child cannot act in the air world until born. Salvation comes first, then God’s indwelling Spirit brings forth works of righteousness. Without the Life of God in the soul/spirit of man (or woman), the character of God cannot be brought forth in a man(or woman).
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2321
The Thief on the Cross
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
Legion are those who dismiss water baptism as prerequisite to salvation on the grounds that the thief on the cross was not baptized. The thought is that since the thief was suspended on the cross when Jesus said to him, Today you will be with Me in paradise (Luke 23:43), he was being pronounced as saved by Christ without being required to be baptized. As one well-known preacher put it, There was no water within 10 miles of the cross. Please give consideration to two important observations.
First, the thief may well have been baptized prior to being placed on the cross. Considerable scriptural evidence points to this conclusion (Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4-5; Luke 3:21; 7:29-30). If he was, in fact, baptized, he would have been baptized with the baptism administered by John the baptizer. Johns baptism was temporary (i.e., in force only during his personal ministry, terminating at the death of Christ). However, even Johns baptism was for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4) and, hence, essential for salvation for those to whom it was addressed. Johns baptism, like the one administered by Jesus while He was on Earth (John 3:22,26; 4:1-2), was unique and temporary. It was addressed only to Jews, and only to the Jews who populated the vicinity of Jerusalem and Judea. It was designed to prepare the Jewish people for the arrival of the Messiah. But Johns baptism must not be confused with New Testament baptism that is addressed to everybody, and that did not take effect until after the cross of Christ. If the thief was a Jew, and if he already had submitted to Johns baptism, there would have been no need for him to be re-baptized. He simply would have needed to repent of his post-baptism thievery and acknowledge his sinswhich the text plainly indicates that he did.
Second, and most important, the real issue pertains to an extremely crucial feature of Bible interpretation. This hermeneutical feature is so critical that, if a person does not grasp it, his effort to sort out Bible teaching, in order to arrive at correct conclusions, will be inevitably hampered. This principle was spotlighted by Paul when he wrote to Timothy and told him he must rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). In other words, if one simply takes the entire Bibleall 66 booksand treats them as if everything that is said applies directly and equally to everyone, his effort to be in harmony with Gods Word will be hopeless and futile. For example, if a person turned to Genesis 6 and read where God instructed Noah to build a boat, if he did not study enough to determine whether such instruction applied to himself, he would end up building his own boatthe entire time thinking that God wanted him to do so! The Bible is literally filled with commands, instructions, and requirements that were not intended to be duplicated by people living today. Does God forbid you and me from eating a certain fruit (Genesis 2:17; 3:3)? Are we to refrain from boiling a baby goat in its mothers milk (Exodus 23:19)? Does God want you and me to offer our son as a burnt offering (Genesis 22:2)? Are we commanded to load up and leave our homeland (Genesis 12:1)? Moving to the New Testament, does God want you to sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Matthew 19:21)? Does God expect you to leave everything, quit your job, and devote yourself full time to spiritual pursuits (Matthew 4:20; 19:27; Mark 10:28; Luke 5:28)? Does God intend for you to desire spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 14:1), i.e., seek to possess miraculous abilities? The point is that the entire Bible applies to the entire human race. However, careful and diligent study is necessary to determine how it applies. We must understand the biblical distinction between the application of the principles of the Bible and the specific details.
Here, then, is the central point as it pertains to the relevance of the thief on the cross: Beginning at Creation, all humans were amenable to the laws of God that were given to them at that time. Bible students typically call this period of time the Patriarchal Dispensation. During this period, which lasted from Creation to roughly the time of the cross, non-Jews were subject to a body of legislation passed down by God through the fathers of family clans (cf. Hebrews 11:1). In approximately 1,500 B.C., God removed the genetic descendants of Abraham from Egyptian bondage, took them out into the Sinai desert, and gave them their own law code (the Law of Moses). Jews were subject to that body of legal information from that time until it, too, was terminated at the cross of Christ. The following passages substantiate these assertions: Matthew 27:51; Romans 2:12-16; Galatians 3:7-29; Ephesians 2:11-22; Colossians 2:11-17. The book of Hebrews addresses this subject extensively. To get to the heart of the matter quickly, read especially Hebrews 9:15-17. When one correctly handles the Word of truth, one sees that the Bible teaches that when Christ died on the cross, Mosaic law came to an end, and patriarchal law shortly thereafter. At that point, all humans on the planet became amenable to the law of Christ (cf. Galatians 6:2). The law of Christ consists strictly of information that is intended to be in effect after the death of Christ. It includes some of the things that Jesus and His disciples taught while He was still on Earth. But as regards the specifics of salvation, one must go to Acts 2 and the rest of the New Testament (especially the book of Acts) in order to determine what one must do today to be saved. Beginning in Acts 2, the new covenant of Christ took effect, and every single individual who responded correctly to the preaching of the gospel was baptized in water in order to be forgiven of sin by the blood of Christ. Every detail of an individuals conversion is not always mentioned, but a perusal of the book of Acts demonstrates decisively that water immersion was a prerequisite to forgiveness, along with faith, repentance, and confession of the deity of Christ (Acts 2:38,41; 8:12,13,16,36-38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15,33; 18:8; 19:5; 22:16).
The thief was not subject to the New Testament command to be baptized into Christs death (Romans 6:3-4), just as Moses, Abraham, and David were not amenable to it. They all lived prior to the cross under different law codes. They could not have been baptized into Christs deathbecause He had not yet died! The establishment of the church of Christ and the launching of the Christian religion did not occur until after Christs death, on the day of Pentecost in the year A.D. 30 in the city of Jerusalem (Acts 2). An honest and accurate appraisal of the biblical data forces us to conclude that the thief on the cross is not an appropriate example of how people are to be saved this side of the cross.
The life and death of Jesus Christ is the sole basis of our justification, faith in Christ is the sole instrument of our justification, and good works are the necessary result of a life thus justified.
It’s quite simple. Confusion can place your eternal soul in jeopardy.
Water baptism is not a requirement for Salvation to be instituted. Water baptism is a public affirmation of to Whose Family the Saved belongs. An unsaved person can be baptised in the same way but will not become saved through baptism. Being Born Again happens in the spirit realm, not the spacetime we sense. HOWEVER, the new alignemnt of spirit, given time, will manifest the character of God in the life of the Born Again.
Only extremists believe that God would shun those of His creatures who have never been exposed to Christianity.
_______________________________________________________
Jesus died for the whole world, but the whole world will not be saved...
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:14-21
Is that a story like “Heaven’s Gate” ????
What about Ephisians 2:8, 9 ???
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast Ephesians 2:8, 9
Grace is a free gift...
You cant buy it, bargain for it...or work for it...
You best works are as filthy rags to God...
What can you do that is better than Jesus dying on the Cross ????
The cross was a finished work...
Jesus Christ said so Himself “IT IS FINISHED”
And what kind of faith ???
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
But without faith it is impossible to please Him (God): for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:1, 6
The thief was not subject to the New Testament command to be baptized into Christs death
___________________________________________
John the Baptist....
“Have you forgotten that there are many people on this planet who have not been exposed to Christianity and never will be”
What is your point here? Do YOU feel faith alone isn’t enough? Far more have been exposed to Christianity than ever before and there are some, lacking missionaries, who feel the Spirit move them to search Him out.
I go by what the Bible says, Faith first, works as evidence of that faith.
“actually, you are saved by grace....the faith has to be shown thru your works, or as James said, your faith is dead....”
Actually, that’s the gist of what I said. I’m well aware of what James said.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.