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Locked on 03/03/2008 9:42:54 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/22/2008 9:11:12 AM PST by Zakeet
They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.
"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."
H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.
"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."
Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.
Then what say you? Do you condone plural marriage to teenage girls? Do you condemn those who do and equate it as child abuse?
Plural marriage to teenage girls is illegal. I do not condone violations of the law.
I preach the gospel of repentence.
We are not members of your LDS that you can order around. We have the authority of the true Gospel behind us.
Your words to command us have no authority.
I know this is painful for you. I can read your posts. They are full of frustration - and your words become angry (i.e. "liar!" ............"idiot"............)
But, that is not "personal" as we have learned.
Christ forgives me, OMM - and He has no reason to. I was, and am, a sinner. There is no atonement but by Him.
There are no secret symbols, no outfits I should wear, and nothing done behind closed doors that will save me.
Only Christ.
When He said "It is Finished" (John 19:30).........He meant it.
Well, thank you for answering the first part of my post. But you may have misunderstood the second part, so here it is again:
Do you condemn those who do and equate it as child abuse?
Child abuse is illegal and I stand against crime.
Plural marriage is illegal and I stand against crime.
That’s your opinion. I neither subscribe to your opinions nor tolerate your false doctrine. But you get eternal life anyway thanks to the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Excuse me sir - but no - you do not.
I sense, in your heart of hearts, that you know this.
Look - I am not your judge or superior. I hate that on this forum as much as anyone. We have fallen human beings telling us how terrible we are all the time.
I hate that. I know you do too. We share that.
But, search your heart.
I have searched my heart. I would urge you to repent of your sins.
I understand where you are trying to go and I choose not to comment further. If you don’t like it, well, that’s just too bad, isn’t it?
I only answer to Christ - not you, nor Joseph Smith.
He has already forgiven me.
I will never become a "god."
Only His adopted child.
You are not required to answer to me. I am sure that if you are obedient to Jesus’ Commandments, your sins will be forgiven at the day of judgment.
You still think you can earn your way to salvation?
First of all, the New Testament requires that you earnestly contend for the faith...Do you not have to follow the God-breathed words written in the book of Jude? (If you say that you do not have to follow them, then I will note this as another reason that you are not a Christian denomination.)
The New Testament also requires you to be able to give a reason for your hope...name-calling doesn't cut it.
The truth of the restored gospel stands on its own.
What...do you have ruby slippers on and you're clicking your heels?
No matter how many times you repeat that statement...the restored gospel, in part, is a proven fraud. It was on the front page of the New York Times.
You have been given direct evidence, from the mouths of Mormon prophets, that demonstrates that it doesn't stand on its own.
And if it stands on its own...then you should be able to eaisly respond to direct questions with specific answers...so far, you have not done that.
Joseph Smith was annoited servant of Jesus Christ who made him a prophet,
Your religion was conjured up by Constantine who established your doctrine through political Clergy down through the ages none of it ever received a stamp of approval from Jesus Christ!
You still wilfully do not understand the doctrine do you? Then you condone murder? Apparently you believe that it doesn’t matter whether you murder or not, you are saved. Goodness, you have a surprise in store for you, don’t you.
OK, so what HAVE you said?
You have said to me in #1542
Plural marriage to teenage girls is illegal. I do not condone violations of the law.
You have said to pby in #1546
Child abuse is illegal and I stand against crime.
Plural marriage is illegal and I stand against crime.
So it is clear that you condemn the founder of your church, Joe Smith, but you just can't face the fact that he violated the law, he violated D&C, he violated the BOM. No, its not too bad for me, but it is too bad for you. You are selling your soul to a snake oil salesman. Take a close look.
Timothy 2:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1 Tim. 3: 12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Jacob 1:15
And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
Jacob 2: 27
Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
Jacob 3: 5
Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.
D&C 42: 22
Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.
D&C 49: 16
Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation;
What about coveting another man's wife?
Ex. 20: 17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Deut. 5: 21
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour’s wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Mosiah 13: 24
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor’s.
D&C 19:24-25
I am Jesus Christ; I came by the will of the Father, and I do his will. And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife;
The fun doesn't stop here either
Lied to his own wife, first wife Emma
When he was finally caught by Emma, he quickly whipped up some scriptures(D&C 132) that threatened her with DEATH if she did not accept it
Excommunicated friends who did not agree with it(like Oliver Cowdery)
Published scriptures that stated he did not practice it(1835 ed of D&C 101:4)
Published a list of things he(and his followers) claimed to believe and one in particular said he obeyed the laws of the land, even though polygamy had been against the law in Illinois since 1833
Burned down a printing press because it was exposing the truth about his DECEPTIVE life, that he was indeed marrying additional women AND some were still married to their first husband!
You tell us to repent of our sins, while you condone the illegal and sinful practices of your prophet.
Plural marriage is illegal and I stand against crime.
You are almost there...you can do it OMm!
Now, specifically answer the direct questions that was asked:
Does polygamous marriage, with teenage girls, constitute child abuse?
And...did Joseph Smith, at 37 years of age, commit child abuse when he married 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball?
There is more validity to Christianity and proof of its continued existence than there is of dear ol Smitties gold plates.
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