How Mormons Saw Romney -- In wooing evangelicals, he made some fellow LDS members uneasy

In his pursuit of the presidency, Mitt Romney held fast to his Mormon faith, though his religion remains controversial with evangelicals and some other Christians. But his determined (and ultimately futile) wooing of evangelicals led him to make some statements that didn't quite square with Mormon beliefs and culture. And the effort itself may have deepened the impression of him as inauthentic—even to some fellow Mormons.

Early in his presidential bid, Romney was asked what he thought of polygamy. Prompted by what they considered a divine revelation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice more than a century ago, and the church distances itself from polygamist "fundamentalists." But Romney went one step further, saying he couldn't "imagine anything more awful than polygamy." Many Mormons were privately taken aback. Mormons believe that, in its time, "plural marriage" was a commandment from God, and they are, as a group, fiercely proud of their ancestors, hundreds of whom practiced polygamy. (Romney's own great-grandfather had five wives.) LDS church members loathe the polygamy stereotypes and jokes bandied by outsiders. But hearing Romney—the most recognizable face of their faith these days—disavow it in those terms was mildly unsettling to LDS insiders.

Others were puzzled to hear Romney say he reads the Gideon Bible—a version popular with evangelicals: Mormons uniformly study the King James version, in a Salt Lake edition that is cross-referenced to all other Mormon scripture. "Seems like he just figured he had to say the safest, most Protestant thing he could think of—that was kind of annoying," says Russell Arben Fox, a Mormon professor of political science at Friends University in Wichita, Kans.

Re: Do you hate me? ... Why do you hate Mormons? ... Why do you attack Mormons?

I DO NOT HATE MORMONS

Many of my family and friends are Mormons, and most of them are kind, loving, devout people. One cannot hate them, because they are not hateful. I do not hate the Mormons, nor am I attacking them. They are victims, not the perpetrators.

Christians say we love the sinner, hate the sin. In that regard, I love the Mormons, hate the Mormonism.

I believe such a limited hate is justified: I hate a lie, and I hate liars. And Mormonism is a lie, and many of its founders and many of its present leaders are liars. And it is by means of these lies that Mormonism attracts and keeps innocent people ensnared in its system.

The Mormon missionary message is a sanitized, incomplete and therefore inaccurate picture of its doctrines and its history. If Mormon missionaries and Mormon leaders would be completely honest about informing the public and prospective converts about the less attractive aspects of church history and church doctrine, then postings such as mine would be unnecessary. But they do not make full disclosure (as merchants are required by law to do in most states) because that would turn many people away. I find such conduct dishonest, and the moral equivalent of a lie.

I am attacking Mormonism only in the sense I am presenting facts that indicate that its claims are false. I am presenting the other side of the question. Is that immoral?

Everything I say on this forum is backed up by information I (and many others) believe to be accurate and true. I continually invite Mormons or others to show me if any of my facts or conclusions are false or illogical. And I have repeatedly offered to publicly retract and apologize for anything I have said which is proven untrue.

Your own church leaders have said some cruel and hateful things about my Christian faith and its leaders. For example:

Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
Until recently, the Mormon Temple Ceremony referred to my pastor as a dimwitted hireling of Satan.

You can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians, even calling them inferior to Muslims, HERE.

Now, I do not think that any fair person can say that I have said such terrible things about the Mormon church as the Mormon scriptures and prophets have said about my Christian Faith and my pastor. In fact, compared to these official Mormon statements, my comments about Mormonism must look fairly mild.

BOTTOM LINE: I don't think I have been hateful toward you or any other Latter-day Saint. And I don't think I have made any false statements. And my original offer still stands: I will be pleased to publicly apologize for and retract any untrue and/or unkind statement.

And God gave instructions both to those who claim to be His teachers/prophets and those who would follow/believe those teachers/prophets. To ignore His warnings brings condemnation and death. God gave signs concerning true and false prophets and how to test them, observe them, and understand who is true versus who is false.

The Old and New Testaments Scriptures are replete with statements that there will be prophets throughout the ages to the end times. The Scriptures don't specifically name who they will be, from where they will come, or the hour they will come. Nevertheless, come they will. Instead, the believer is told about the CHARACTERISTICS of the prophets who WILL come, in both the Old and New Testaments, so they know exactly what to look for when they arrive. God would have the believers judge whether the prophet is a TRUE prophet or a FALSE prophet.

In judging whether a prophet is a TRUE prophet or a FALSE prophet, the believer must look to the Scriptures for guidance. If a prophet is sent by the Christian God Who wrote the Christian Bible, then common sense dictates that identifying same would require relying upon the Christian God's Word, i.e., both the Old and New Testaments [not outside sources], to determine TRUTH.

False Prophets undermine the authority of God; draw the people to themselves; make the Word of God to no effect in people's lives; and teach from doctrine the commandments of men (not God).

When tempted by Satan in the wilderness, the Lord Jesus Christ quoted exclusively from the Old Testament Book of Deuteronomy when beating back Satan. I think, therefore, it's a good place to start when determining true and false prophets:

Deuteronomy 18:20-22:
But the prophet, who shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presump- tuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3:
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

From the above Scriptures, we can determine the following: 1) What a TRUE prophet of God claims will come to pass will come to pass 100% of the time. A false prophet's prophecies miss the 100% mark. A false prophet lies. A false prophet may speak in the "name of other gods," may be a "dreamer of dreams" and "perform signs and wonders," however, IF what they speak CONTRADICTS God's Word and God's commands, then the prophet is a FALSE prophet.

In Jeremiah, we read yet more about false prophets who prophesy from "false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusions of their own minds." Obviously, these prophets are having VISIONS and DIVINATIONS, but they are not from God. The mere fact that someone has visions and divinations is not a "sign" that the prophet is of God and, therefore, a true prophet. Rather, these prophets were condemned by God Himself. Why? Because they were leading people astray from God and into various forms of idolatry. God smite dead the false prophets and those who believed in them. Why? Because rather than believing IN GOD, the people BELIEVED IN a false prophet. These people KNEW and/or had the ability to know that what they were doing and IN WHOM they believed CONTRADICTED God's Word and commands. They were without excuse and willingly turned away from HIM to BELIEVE IN another.

Jeremiah 18:11-16:
Then the LORD said to me, "Do not pray for the well-being of this people. Although they fast, I will not listen to their cry; though they offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Instead, I will destroy them with the sword, famine and plague." But I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, the prophets keep telling them, 'You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.' "
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, 'No sword or famine will touch this land.' Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine. And the people they are prophesying to will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and sword. There will be no one to bury them or their wives, their sons or their daughters. I will pour out on them the calamity they deserve.

As another example in Jeremiah, we read about a true vs. false prophet, and how false prophets lead people into believing lies:

Jeremiah 28:15:
Then said the Prophet Jeremiah [the TRUE prophet], unto Hananiah, the [FALSE] Prophet, 'Hear now, Hananiah, the Lord hath not sent thee, but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.

Christ, in the New Testament Scriptures, warn believers concerning the manner, method, and characteristics of false prophets, which parallels exactly that which was said concerning them in the Old Testament Scriptures:

Matthew 7:15-16: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are revening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits....
Matthew 7:22-24: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? And in the Thy Name have cast out Devils? And in thy Name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity. For there shall arise false 'Christs', and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that if (it were) possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:11: And MANY false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive MANY.
Mark 13:22: For false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Luke 6:26: Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

What is it, then, that Christians, followers of Christ, should do? What Jesus Himself said:

John 31-32: ...Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

We are to believe HIS teachings not another's teachings. If what another teaches is not what Christ Himself taught, then that teacher is NOT of God. How do I know this? It is not only evident after reading all of the previous Scripture, but it makes sense LOGICALLY. Christ would not have His followers teaching AGAINST Him and what He taught is true. This would mean He is divided against Himself. And if Christ were not of God, then His teachings would contradict God, God's nature, God's Word, and God's commands, but they do not.

Jesus was accused of being a false prophet by the Pharisees. They claimed that the miracles He performed and His abilities to drive out demons from people were because He was a messenger of Satan. But Jesus showed how flawed their thinking was when He said:

Matthew 12:
24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Finally, Peter warns against false prophets who deny Christ's work of redemption:

2nd Peter 2:1-3:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

To summarize:

True prophets do not lie (Deuteronomy 18:21-22; Jeremiah 18:11-16)
Their age and sex doesn't matter (Acts 2:17,18)
They prophecy 100% correct 100% of the time (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
Their words match with Scripture 100% (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
Their words, message, and fruit do not contradict God's nature, words and commands (Jeremiah 18:11-16; Matthew 12:24-33)
Their message is to encourage the believers to obey the Law of God (Jeremiah 18:11-16; Ezekiel 7:26)
Their teaching glorifies Jesus Christ and His work of salvation (1 John 4:1-3)
Miracles alone do not prove they are a true prophet (Deuteronomy 13:1-3; Jeremiah 18:11-16; Matthew 24:24,25)
Their work, message, and walk will display the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 7:15-20 and Galatians 5:22,23)
(See also: Matthew 4:4; Jeremiah 23:16-17; Ezekiel 13:10; Acts 13:6-12; Exodus 7:8-12; Jeremiah 23:9-32; Exodus 13; Matthew 24:24; 2nd Chronicles 18; and Jeremiah 28.)

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