Posted on 02/19/2008 5:49:25 AM PST by NYer
Paolo Rodari of Il riformista has an interesting piece about the Pope reaction to a question put to him during his recent meeting with the clergy of Rome. The question was about the problem of the huge outdoor Masses which became a norm during the pontificate of John Paul II.
Here is Rodari’s piece, in my translation, with my emphases and comments.
That the papal liturgies are changing enormously, also thanks to the arrival of the Pope’s new Master of Ceremonies, the Ligurian of the [late Card.] Siri school, Msgr. Guido Marini, is something well-known. Behind Marini, of course, is the Pope, for whom the liturgy of all time is to be celebrated in a new way (which as a matter of fact hasn’t been done for a long time), that is, faithfully following the rules – regardless of ‘old’ or new’ Missal – so as to offer a dignified whole that is respectful of what is taking place.
As a case in point, the Pontiff spoke about this a few days ago (7 Feb) in the traditional and purposely spontaneous parry and riposte which, as happens every year at the beginning of Lent, takes place behind closed doors between him and the priests and deacons of Rome.
Among the ten questions presented to Ratzinger, one was dedicated to Masses celebrated with huge crowds, those which – to be clear – more and more became the established practice during the pontificate of John Paul II. Those which, still, for logistical reasons are for example ever more frequent for spiritual retreats and large ecclesial movements.
The Pope listened in silence to the question offered to him, responded, and then in the following days, made an important decision about it.
But let’s be orderly. The question put to the Pontiff was unimpeachable in its formulation and went like this: "How do we reconcile the treasure of the liturgy in all its solemnity and with the sentiment, emotion and excitment of masses of young people called to participate in it?" Benedict XVI responded immediately that, in effect, there is a problem: "Liturgy in which masses of people participate", he said, "is a big problem."
[This part is fascinating.] The Pope recalled that everything began with a question presented in 1960 during a large International Eucharistic Congress at Munich, about how there could be the celebration of the Eucharist also at such events. To adore, it was said at Munich, can be done also at a distance, but to celebrate a limited community is necessary which can interact with the mystery. At Munich many expressed negative opinions regarding the hypothesis of celebrations of the Eucharist in the open, even with one hundred thousand people or more. But it was the Austrian liturgist Josef Andreas Jungmann, one of the architects of the liturgical reform, who created "the concept of ‘statio orbis‘" and thus legitimated celebrations as vast as oceans: in substance, if there exists the "statio Romae", and thus the place where the faithful gather to then go together to the Eucharist, so then there can exist also (and this is the case with Eucharistic Congresses), a "statio orbis", the gathering place of the world. [And some critics of Pope Benedict’s liturgical decisions have made the dopey comment that he isn’t a "trained liturgist". But he knew this and had it at the tip of his tongue during a Q&A.]
It is thanks to Jungmann, therefore, that today there are large Mass celebrations. Even so, for Ratzinger, these represent a problem for which a definitive response – as he said himself on 7 February last – "has not yet been found" also because, "if there concelebrate, for example, a thousand priests, you don’t know if this is the structure the Lord wanted." [KABOOM! This is the key. Pope Ratzinger fishes the whole question out of the soup of pragmatism and brings it back to Christ’s will. As Pope, Benedict must concern himself primarily with what God wills before he makes practical decisions. So, the question is no on the floor: are these mass Masses a good response to the reality of large crowds who want to be with the Pope? Should Communion and concelebration, perhaps, be more limited?]
In the meantime, the Pope said, there is needed at least to find "a certain style to preserve the dignity that is always necessary for the Eucharist." [Well… they haven’t done a very good job so far.] In the last large mass celebrations at which Ratzinger participated, for example at the recent gathering at Loreto, all these problems with these celebrations were present and the situation, he said, "didn’t depend on me, but rather on those who were tasked with the preparation".
And so, there is the solution, for now only partial, but nevertheless necessary, in view of the upcoming ocean-sized Masses: for two occasions on the apostolic visit to the United States (on 17 April in the new Nationals Park and 20 April at Yankee Stadium in New York) and those foreseen for World Youth Day in Sydney. In the USA and Australia, the Pope decided not to delegate any longer the organization of celebrations to third parties. And so he asked that, in the next days, that his Master of Ceremonies, Msgr. Guido Marini, should fly across the oceans (both the Pacific and Atlantic) with the precise task of studying the locations to be used for the liturgical functions with the end of taking on direct responsibility for carrying out celebrations in those spaces; that the result might be Masses that are as vast as oceans, but at least characterized as much as possible with composure and discipline.
Christ's feeding of the five-thousand is the closest biblical event that I can think of that could shed some light on this, as it was a proto-Eucharistic celebration. That's all I have. Maybe someone else can build on it.
Christ's feeding of the five-thousand is the closest biblical event that I can think of that could shed some light on this, as it was a proto-Eucharistic celebration. That's all I have. Maybe someone else can build on it.
LOL - did you make that up??
You ARE?? singing at the Mass in DC? Oh very cool. We are in CA, I wanted to attend that so badly. Have a great time. Should be wonderful. and to sing in the choir, heavenly. Good good.
Thanks for the kind words, bhoop.
Sit up straight and pay attention!
The subject of the article is the Eucharist, not homiletics.
Try and find a more appropriate cue for your one note symphony.
When is the last time you attended a Catholic Mass?
In the Byzantine Rite, we sing the WHOLE THING, start to finish, with no accompaniment. We don't have a problem with schmaltzy pop-tunes, cocktail calliopes, guitars, and electronic flutes. We just start at the beginning, and sing our way through to the finish. Standing. LOL!
I don't have to attend the smoke and mirrors show. All I have to do is read the "Catholic Caucus" threads here on FR to understand the idolatry and works based theology.
In Christ...Alone!
How juvenile. Do you think that you can convince anybody of anything by being so condescending? How liberal your statement sounds.
My one note symphony is this...
IN CHRIST...ALONE!!!
Nice tune...huh?
I am amazed at your statement. The Catholic Caucus threads that are posted daily are Scripture based.
I think we’re together there, correct?
And as NYer suggested, I believe you would be amazed at the reverences toward our Lord, Jesus Christ, that is present in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Please attend one during Lent if you can.
** it’s what they preach! **
What exactly do you think is preached at a Catholic Mass? If you are interested in discovering the truth, I urge you to attend one and find out.
We really can’t make blanket statements like that, can we?
I urge you to flee from the idolatry of the RC church.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
In Christ...Alone!
We worship Jesus Christ in the Sacrifice of the Mass. Please educate yourself about that by attending a Catholic Mass. I also have a link for you for some excellent homilies if you are interested.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated forevermore.
Please educate yourself about that by attending a Catholic Mass.
I educate myself about Jesus by reading Scripture!
I also have a link for you for some excellent homilies if you are interested.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
In Christ...Alone!
Why?
We're gonna rule the world and you can't stop us!!
Resistance is useless, you blathering poltroon!!
Look for a group of Latin-chanting Opus Dei associates to show up at your home any day now and smash down your front door with a 500lb marble statue.
I tend to think we see it more with Pope Benedict than with Pope John Paul II is because we knew Benedict as Ratzinger for such a long time. He was “someone” before he became pope. AND, the name Ratzinger instills fear in unorthodox, liberal Catholics.
That’s just my take on it...
:o)
Are you joking?
I admire your efforts, but some things are simply beyond parody ... this one is a parody of itself.
They have a whole page devoted to parodies.
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