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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; blue-duncan; the_conscience; HarleyD; ...
[Dr. E.:] "Miracles weren't to influence those who would never have faith; miracles were to further convince those to whom God gave faith."

[Kosta:] So, those who have faith don't have enough of it (although once saved you can't lose it!)? Is that what you are saying? And how come today all we need is just faith; no miracles needed?

As of today, 2008, is ANY part of your faith supported by your belief that Christ actually did the miracles described in the scriptures 2,000 years ago? The main reason Christ did miracles was not to take care of people's needs. The main reason was to prove Who He was and to cause His elect to believe. By no means were they only meant to influence eyewitnesses at the time. They were meant to touch all of us even unto this day!

I remember going through the transformation as a teenager. Once I was solid with the presupposition that there was A God, I remember being very impressed with the miracles that the Bible told about (this God) Jesus performing. The POWER required by such a being was easy to accept, if there is an "all-powerful" God. What really swung me was the "why" behind all of what Christ did. The miracles themselves drew my attention to the "why". I think that even today those stories still stir lost and searching souls, and so the miracles continue to have a very important impact on new believers. In a sense, they still continue to "show".

In addition, I am of a breed of Christian that needs reminding of things all the time. So, reading of Christ's miracles helps me to focus on His Divinity, and reconfirms for me certain things that I need to have reconfirmed because sometimes my mind wanders. :) I think you know where I'm going. Christ's miracles are still very important for everyday Christians today. They tell us so much about WHO HE IS.

I suppose Christ could have just zapped anyone He saw into belief without doing any miracles. But apparently the plan was for there to be witnesses, and for those stories to be passed down. That's how it still benefits us.

2,205 posted on 02/18/2008 6:00:36 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; blue-duncan; ...
[Kosta:] So, those who have faith don't have enough of it (although once saved you can't lose it!)? Is that what you are saying? And how come today all we need is just faith; no miracles needed?

The Resurrection is all the proof we need. The miracle that GOD the Father would love us so much that he would send his Son Jesus Christ to pay for our sins is enough. Jesus proved it all true when he rose from the dead and appeared to hundreds.

What miracle could come close to this?

2,209 posted on 02/18/2008 8:13:42 AM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights
The miracles themselves drew my attention to the "why". I think that even today those stories still stir lost and searching souls, and so the miracles continue to have a very important impact on new believers. In a sense, they still continue to "show".

AMEN! Exactly as God graciously wills.

Paul anticipates our human need for evidence and persuasion, and so he reminds us God had kindly answered that need and given us the "proof" our feeble hearts long for. He even goes so far as to say without the proof of the resurrection, our faith would be a lie.

"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." -- 1 Corinthians 15:12-17

We should note, too, that Paul says in verse 17 if Christ has not been resurrected, we are still in our sins, meaning we are still condemned by our sins and burdened by their weight and need for atonement.

Yet we know Christ has been resurrected, and therefore we are not now condemned in our sins, but acquitted by Christ whose stripes have healed us, contrary to the RCC view that says our sins must be repeatedly washed clean each time the sacraments are given.

As Paul tells us over and over, once Christ paid for the sins of His sheep by His death on the cross, the sins of His sheep were forgiven, once for all time. Christ did not redeem us merely to give us the freedom to act righteously. He actually freed us from the penalty of our sins. Even the sins of tomorrow have been forgiven by God because Christ died to pay for every one of them, and rose from the dead to prove it all true.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified...

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." -- Hebrews 10:14,18

That is Christian liberty. That is the freedom Christ has given His flock which His death accomplished in full and His resurrection proved in fact...

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." -- John 8:32

2,218 posted on 02/18/2008 10:51:39 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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