Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
LOL.
GTTM.
ROTFLOL.
the late medieval bastardization of Scripture and tradition lead to the privatizing of the Holy Spirit to the papal oligarchy, the denial that all doctrinal truths are found in Scripture and the addition of extra-scriptural post apostolic tradition on the same level as revelation in opposition to what the early fathers believed.
Unfortunately this is not the end of the story. As can be seen by the attitudes of our Greek and Romanist friends the relation between Scripture and tradition is now evolving to the point where neither is a final source but now the magisterium can rewrite it's own official (infallible) dogma overriding both Scripture and tradition. (As we see going on with the low view of Scripture being promoted)
Great post, tc! Posts like that are why I come to learn at the Free Republic Religion Forum.
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. John 6:55-56
STF, we don't reject the scripture, we just reject the Latin Church's interpretation of it. Under Reformed interpretation this speaks of taking Christ into ourselves through true belief (given by God). This happens one and only one time. One sacrifice leads to one belief that is true. From what I gather, the Latin view of this passage is that Christ means this as some sort of joke. When Christ uses very powerful language like "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life." He actually doesn't mean a word of it for sure. For the Latin Church, He is only here talking about possibilities and probabilities and chance.
To me, this view has Christ actually MOCKING Himself because in TRUTH His flesh would NOT be meat indeed and His blood would NOT be drink indeed because it all counts for nothing unless the person makes the right decisions for the rest of his life. This makes Christ look like a poser because He is boasting about things that are out of His control.
The other "alternative" is a priori acceptance of it as "factual." Some people are willing to do so; I am not. If there is absolutely zero, zilch, evidence of historical Exodus (after 40 years of intense Israeli archaeological search for traces of 600,000 men—and their families [unless the bible is giving incorrect numbers] roaming the Sinai for 40 years and finding nothing—but founing lots of evidence of Egyptian presence in the Sinai of that time period), then I may have some reservations about such a priori acceptance.
I have actually been wrestling with your consistent use of the term "a priori" and how to deal with it. So far, I have assumed that by that term you mean "just made up", as in "blind faith" based on nothing. I hope I have something new to add here.
I looked at several online dictionaries for the definition of "a priori" and one thought I believed to be in consensus was this: "not in accordance with previously established fact". Wow, for these purposes, that's pretty loaded. :)
Now, if you want to talk about the original Genesis story and say that it would be the same as if it said some other story that didn't violate other scripture, then one could make a case for "a priori" (assuming one threw out the literal nature of the later quotations from Genesis).
However, when the Bible speaks over and over again, from God's lips, about the sinful nature of man, and what form that actually takes, can you really put such things in the category of "a priori"? No, you can't because with regard to the nature of man himself, the Bible is PERFECTLY "in accordance with previously established fact". For example, is man today like this?:
Gal 5:19-21 : 19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Of course he is. Therefore, the totality of scripture is not "a priori". The Bible gives man the truth about himself flat out.
So, what about the faith part? The Bible speaks of ears to hear and eyes to see, and these must come from God. If the proof you are looking for cannot come from God (or be disqualified), then I suppose your view could fall under that which is not "in accordance with previously established fact". The OBVIOUS RED FLAG is that you are taking the position of a committed atheist! :) You are telling us that if I cannot show you an equation or a formula that proves God, then no one can assert Him as a FACT. This goes WAY WAY beyond strange bedfellows, Kosta. :)
Obviously, St. Paul couldn't have known that, just as OT prophets didn't know that bats are not birds. The bible is not a historical and scientific encyclopedia.
The Bible is many things including allegory, poetry, and parable. But in the vast majority of cases, those things are readily identified. None of these detract from the fact that the Bible absolutely IS a historical record of what actually happened. The SECOND we throw out the historicity of the Bible, then we have nothing left but to depend on men to tell us what to believe. God is de facto locked out of the equation because how could we trust Him if He either planted lies in His word or allowed men to plant them. Or, if He really never left us a "word" at all. All that is left is a faith in men.
When you say that "St. Paul couldn't have known that" you immediately delete the idea that the scriptures are God-breathed, and therefore are nothing more than earlier writings of individual Church Fathers which may or may not be correct. By definition, this would be a "low opinion of scriptures".
FK: "Just as your verse says, Christ came for His sheep. You seem to be stuck on the notion that only Jews by birth can be sheep."
Yeah, given that He specifically never spoke of preaching to the Gentiles and called them dogs. ...
Is it really your view that Christ thought of all Gentiles as dogs? Let's see what the scriptures say about the story you bring up:
Matt 15:21-28 : 21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs ." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
If your own passage doesn't show that Christ also came to save Gentiles then I don't know what does. Is your contention that Christ was surprised by this and made a one-time exception? Please! :) In Christ's own words it SHOWED that the "lost sheep of Israel" included Gentiles. That is, EXACTLY as Paul said, BTW.
We know, as a biblical fact, that the only reason the Gospels were taken to the Gentiles is because the Jews rejected them (Act 13:46).
Forgive me if this sounds like a cheap shot, but I didn't think you believed much in Biblical "facts". :) In any event, Acts 13:46 is a statement of PROCESS, not a declaration that God had failed and now we're going to do this ... (etc.) That is, unless you want to say that God failed, or that the Bible is wrong.
God intended what happened with the Jews all along, SO THAT the Gospels would then be preached to the Gentiles. The Bible says first to the Jew, and then ... I still can't comprehend the idea that God needed a "bailout" to save this Christianity thing that He started on earth. I mean, what sort of God is this inept?
Christ never taught that Gentiles are "extended" Israel.
Christ taught that He came to fulfill OT Law, and that not a single jot or tittle of that Law would pass away until He had completed His mission. Christ also included Gentiles within the body of those He ministered to. He performed miracles benefiting a few of them. Then He revealed Himself to Paul in miraculous fashion. I suppose we are left to speculate as to what sort of job Christ did in His revelation. Perhaps it was a really good job, or perhaps tons of holes were left, that sort of thing.
But hey, I just noticed something. The (negative) above would be in perfect keeping with Apostolic thought. Think about it, in Apostolic thinking Christ dying on the cross served as kind of a "nudge" to mankind. It made it possible for man to decide for himself whether to do good deeds and partake of the sacraments, etc. And from that result he would be saved or not. NOW, with Paul, the corollary would be that God gave Paul a "nudge", and that made it possible for him to come up with the correct writings, etc. And from that Paul got some stuff right, but he must have gotten some of it wrong too. So, with at least Paul's writings we sort of do the "best we can" as to truth, just the same as we do the best we can in doing enough good deeds to get saved, as Christ made possible by His sacrifice.
FK: "This quote was said BEFORE your alleged reorganization of Christianity to include Gentiles."
John's Gospel was written sixty years after Christ, and represents a very different kind of Christology as compared to Paul's teaching or the synaptic Gospels.
Kosta, you know me and my sneaky lawyer ways. :) So, I was very careful to say "This QUOTE was said BEFORE ..." The quotes of John 10 were SPOKEN in real life before the failure of the Jews to embrace Christianity (that you described). So, either my point (that John says that Christ's sheep never changed and were always given by the Father, including Gentiles) remains unaddressed, or John 10 has made up quotes.
Jesus says He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel. It doesn't say all.
Isn't this the IDENTICAL argument you are having with Harley over who are "those" in Mark 16, except now it's reversed? :) I do realize it can go both ways, but I just thought it was funny enough to bring up. :) It always goes back to context. If our observed experience does not match, then we can either declare the scripture wrong, or we can look for an interpretation consistent with the totality of scripture, i.e. that it is true and is God's revelation to us in conformity with 2 Tim. (at least). In addition, a belief that God's word is Holy is one of the presuppositions I have been talking about.
[continuing:] He also said "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many" (Mat 26:27) and not for all (because not all would come to Him).
Oh, come on! :) You know the arguments over "many". OK, how do you explain this:
Rom 5:15 : 15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many !
I mean, what is the meat of your argument here? Were only SOME, but not all "affected" by Adam's sin? Was Christ sent to save some of the lost but not all, according to Apostolic theology? If He shows no favoritism then how were they selected? This falls apart so quickly....
[Kosta:] So, those who have faith don't have enough of it (although once saved you can't lose it!)? Is that what you are saying? And how come today all we need is just faith; no miracles needed?
As of today, 2008, is ANY part of your faith supported by your belief that Christ actually did the miracles described in the scriptures 2,000 years ago? The main reason Christ did miracles was not to take care of people's needs. The main reason was to prove Who He was and to cause His elect to believe. By no means were they only meant to influence eyewitnesses at the time. They were meant to touch all of us even unto this day!
I remember going through the transformation as a teenager. Once I was solid with the presupposition that there was A God, I remember being very impressed with the miracles that the Bible told about (this God) Jesus performing. The POWER required by such a being was easy to accept, if there is an "all-powerful" God. What really swung me was the "why" behind all of what Christ did. The miracles themselves drew my attention to the "why". I think that even today those stories still stir lost and searching souls, and so the miracles continue to have a very important impact on new believers. In a sense, they still continue to "show".
In addition, I am of a breed of Christian that needs reminding of things all the time. So, reading of Christ's miracles helps me to focus on His Divinity, and reconfirms for me certain things that I need to have reconfirmed because sometimes my mind wanders. :) I think you know where I'm going. Christ's miracles are still very important for everyday Christians today. They tell us so much about WHO HE IS.
I suppose Christ could have just zapped anyone He saw into belief without doing any miracles. But apparently the plan was for there to be witnesses, and for those stories to be passed down. That's how it still benefits us.
Just catching up, hard to stay current.
FWIW, it is our belief that makes us members of the family. IOW, first you must believe THE GOSPEL and have faith in Jesus to be a member of this family.
I fully agree that members of this family are found in all types of assemblies.
You are not in a family because of what you believe..
Its totally who you are that determines physical relationship..
And according to Jesus, spiritual relationship..
"You MUST be born again" -Jesus
NOT you "must" be enlightened intellectually..
Nicodemus was unclear also, as you are(seem to be)..
Some people are "thick".. (like Peter or Thomas)..
Its not what you believe its who you are that counts..
Belief is a nebulous thing.. sophistry and semantics..
WHO ARE YOU?.. Is the question...
The Resurrection is all the proof we need. The miracle that GOD the Father would love us so much that he would send his Son Jesus Christ to pay for our sins is enough. Jesus proved it all true when he rose from the dead and appeared to hundreds.
What miracle could come close to this?
That is the meaning of life - both mortal life and spiritual life. It is also the panorama of Scripture, Genesis to Revelation and His Name, Alpha and Omega.
Jesus explained it to everyone, i.e. that the true family is of God, not man. His is not a family born of the flesh but of the Spirit.
We are adopted children by the will of God alone. In our journey here on earth, He is raising us as if we were little children – toddlers, really.
When we misbehave, He spanks us. When we are about to toddle into extreme danger, He rescues us. Sometimes He lets us touch a hot stove – if we are too pigheaded to heed His warning and must touch it to know it is hot. He picks us up when we cry out to Him. And when we think we don’t need Him, He lets us try to do it on our own – and we fail. When we get hurt, he makes it all better. He gives us ice cream and He also gives us spinach.
And when we need to be brought to our personal “Red Sea” experience, He sees it done.
Children do not learn by living in a bubble. How would they know light if they had never seen darkness? Good without evil? Health without sickness? Peace without anxiety? Heat without cold? Courage without fear? Success without failure? And so on.
All of these things - Light as well as darkness, Good as well as evil – all of it – reveals God to us through contrast - and prepares us to become members of His family. This heaven and earth is for our sake, for the children's sake.
Truly, God is the perfect Father. He loves us as a Father loves his children, tough love when we need it, gentle love when we need it.
God is Love. God is Good. Truly Good, not just "feel good." He does not change. We do.
He didn’t need this heaven and earth, we did.
When we know His perfect Fatherly love --- unearned love as .30Carbine describes it --- we are not gripped by fear.
Maranatha, Jesus!!!
Love is sacrifice.. What you sacrifice for; you love.. what you will not sacrifice for; you do not love.. Its all in degrees too.. Some people love "their CAR".. Some have levels of sacrifice.. But sacrifice is love and love is sacrifice.. Love does not have to be earned.. but sacrifice can be answered with sacrifice.. a circle of love.. Sacrifice occurs on many levels.. there is and can be an economy of sacrifice..
Those that neglect to sacrifice are unhappy people.. and are takers.. the givers love to sacrifice.. Sacrificing your personal resources and self brings joy.. Hoarding of those things brings sorrow.. and loneliness.. Thats pretty much the lessons God tried to teach the Jews in the Temple.. and as Jesus in the New Testament.. i.e. pick you're cross and follow me..
Would the non believer be a member of this family?
John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"You MUST be born again" -Jesus NOT you "must" be enlightened intellectually..
The belief Jesus is telling us we must have is not intellectual enlightenment you are referring to.
Luke 18:17 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.
Indeed. And perfect heavenly Father that He is, He is raising us up in this heaven and earth so that we will be prepared to live together with God forever as members of His family in the new heaven and earth.
That is the meaning of life - both mortal life and spiritual life. It is also the panorama of Scripture, Genesis to Revelation and His Name, Alpha and Omega.
Jesus explained it to everyone, i.e. that the true family is of God, not man. His is not a family born of the flesh but of the Spirit.
While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. – Matthew 12:46-50
And again,
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:12-13
His adopted children are born of Him – not by anything physical or by the will of man.
We are adopted children by the will of God alone. In our journey here on earth, He is raising us as if we were little children – toddlers, really.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. - Romans 8:15
He is truly our Father who art in heaven. He is loving and patient with us. He is perfect.
When we misbehave, He spanks us. When we are about to toddle into extreme danger, He rescues us. Sometimes He lets us touch a hot stove – if we are too pigheaded to heed His warning and must touch it to know it is hot. He picks us up when we cry out to Him. And when we think we don’t need Him, He lets us try to do it on our own – and we fail. When we get hurt, he makes it all better. He gives us ice cream and He also gives us spinach.
= = =
AMEN! AMEN!
Another link
HYMN: I BELIEVE IN A HILL CALLED MT CALVARY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1onzCUJxzw
Those that neglect to sacrifice are unhappy people.. and are takers.. the givers love to sacrifice.. Sacrificing your personal resources and self brings joy.. Hoarding of those things brings sorrow.. and loneliness.. Thats pretty much the lessons God tried to teach the Jews in the Temple.. and as Jesus in the New Testament.. i.e. pick you’re cross and follow me..
= =
INDEED.
Many people belive in synthetic Gods and Demi-Gods.. That takes belief (sophistry and semantics).. It don't take much believing to believe in your Father(of the family).. Because he sired you.. you cannot disbelieve in him.. Synthetic Gods require much belief.. OH! and clergy..
[ Luke 18:17 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it. ]
Little children are most prone to dream and create imaginary conditions.. Oh! and play church.. This comment was said after the Apostles argued among themselves who would be greatest in heaven.. Jesus took a little child and said this.. Yes Jesus was mocking belief.. I think you got it..
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. – John 6:44
AMEN! Exactly as God graciously wills.
Paul anticipates our human need for evidence and persuasion, and so he reminds us God had kindly answered that need and given us the "proof" our feeble hearts long for. He even goes so far as to say without the proof of the resurrection, our faith would be a lie.
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." -- 1 Corinthians 15:12-17"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
We should note, too, that Paul says in verse 17 if Christ has not been resurrected, we are still in our sins, meaning we are still condemned by our sins and burdened by their weight and need for atonement.
Yet we know Christ has been resurrected, and therefore we are not now condemned in our sins, but acquitted by Christ whose stripes have healed us, contrary to the RCC view that says our sins must be repeatedly washed clean each time the sacraments are given.
As Paul tells us over and over, once Christ paid for the sins of His sheep by His death on the cross, the sins of His sheep were forgiven, once for all time. Christ did not redeem us merely to give us the freedom to act righteously. He actually freed us from the penalty of our sins. Even the sins of tomorrow have been forgiven by God because Christ died to pay for every one of them, and rose from the dead to prove it all true.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." -- Hebrews 10:14,18"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified...
That is Christian liberty. That is the freedom Christ has given His flock which His death accomplished in full and His resurrection proved in fact...
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." -- John 8:32
***Luke 20:34-36 : 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children , since they are children of the resurrection.***
Worthy. I thought that the Reformed claim that none are worthy.
***John 1:12-13 : 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God***
Jesus gave them the right. Rights can be withdrawn or rejected.
***In every single case, there is a distinction between some who are God’s children and some who are not. There can be no confusion. That the saved are God’s children, and the lost are not is a theme running throughout the NT. There are just too many verses to interpret that idea away.***
Now there is something that we do agree on. We just don’t agree on who makes up the saved.
***BTW, I went rotifer fishing once, and caught me a big one too. He must have come in at just over 0.7 mm or so. :)***
Some of the new toy dog breeds would be just the right size for bait.
***Mark, from your above I infer that you think that if someone did all those things that he would be barred from Heaven, is that right? But, what if someone did all those things and then really repented and asked the forgiveness of a priest after convincing him that he was sincere? Wouldn’t that person be just fine and saved in the Church’s eyes at that point? I mean, at least until he committed the least mortal sin after that? IOW, are you saying that there is a “sin threshold” (not involving the Spirit) after which one crosses he cannot be saved no matter what a priest does on his behalf? I’ve never heard of that.***
Ah, that is because I spoke incorrectly. Sinning without repentence bars one from Heaven (also a constant theme running the the NT). No man can save another, just as no man can damn another.
The priest does not save, nor does he damn. Only God judges; and He Judges by His Judgement on His rules.
***Irish, and Quix, and I are all saying that Christ died for all of our sins, past, present and future. That gives His death real meaning and worth.***
Christ died to destroy our soul’s death and rose again to restore our eternal life. That makes it possible for us to be saved. We could not otherwise.
In the Sermon on the Mount, we are instructed to do and are told what happens if we do not do - we are eternally punished in hell. The words of Jesus are plain and require little interpretation.
***Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners — of whom I am the worst.***
Yes. He came into the world to save sinners - to save all sinners - and there are going to be some that refuse to be saved.
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