Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
lol. You just contradicted yourself. We were created in the image of God, but as you rightly point out, things changed after the Fall.
Since the Fall...
"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." -- John 6:65
Rebellion is not in our nature, but free will is in our nature.
Free will appears no where in the Bible. Unlike rebellion, which is made very clear to those with eyes to see...
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:3-7"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
I hope you're actually reading these verses. You don't seem to be able to offer any Scritpural rebuttal against what they tell us.
Love isn't love unless its freely given and freely accepted.
That is straight from Hallmark. That is not the love God has for His family which was declared by God from before the foundation of the world.
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." -- Jude 1:24-25"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
How does Christ "present us faultless before God?" By imputing His righteousness to us.
And you still have no response to Ephesians 1. That should tell you something. If you've read the Bible, it's been through the lens of men and not of the Holy Spirit.
Amen. And yet God created Satan, who was a "murderer from the beginning."
If God truly didn't want any evil within His creation, He could easily erase Satan from all existence.
And yet He doesn't.
Obviously evil serves a purpose of God, just as heresy serves a purpose...
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." -- 1 Corinthains 11:19
God is all holy and within Him there is no evil. Yet God created Satan and permits Satan to prowl the earth, spewing lies.
Thankfully, by His word we know that...
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10"God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
YUP
lol. Oodles, apparently.
Psalm 115:3, But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Everything is one NOW with God.
The devil's pride, Adam and Eve's fall ,yours and my sins,the beginning and end of the world is all one EVENT and NOW with God
God who is love has created and willed all things in perfection and love.
All corrupted nature and sin is man's free doing,not God's
That Creation is not Successive
Succession is proper to movement. But creation is not movement. Therefore there is in it no succession.
2. In every successive movement there is some medium between the extremes. But between being and not-being, which are the extremes in creation, there can be no medium, and therefore no succession.
3. In every making, in which there is succession, the process of being made is before the state of achieved completion. But this cannot happen in creation, because, for the process of being made to precede the achieved completion of the creature, there would be required some subject in which the process might take place. Such a subject cannot be the creature itself, of whose creation we are speaking, because that creature is not till the state of its achieved completion is realised. Nor can it be the Maker, because to be in movement is an actuality, not of mover, but of moved. And as for the process of being made having for its subject any pre-existing material, that is against the very idea of creation. Thus succession is impossible in the act of creation.
5. Successive stages in the making of things become necessary, owing to defect of the matter, which is not sufficiently disposed from the first for the reception of the form. Hence, when the matter is already perfectly disposed for the form, it receives it in an instant. Thus because a transparent medium is always in final disposition for light, it lights up at once in the presence of any actually shining thing. Now in creation nothing is prerequisite on the part of the matter, nor is anything wanting to the agent for action. It follows that creation takes place in an instant: a thing is at once in the act of being created and is created, as light is at once being shed and is shining.
I only offer John 3:16. It alone is sufficient.
Other’s seem to be doing a pretty good job supporting my interpretation of things with scripture, and with St. Thomas Aquinas, actually.
God does not set us up to fail. We are unworthy, every one of us. All are called, but few respond. Those few accept the perfect sacrifice of Christ and are saved.
How we come to Christ, or don’t come to Christ, is on each individual.
I read the Bible, each day, and to my children.
To teach my children that God has not put a heart in you that will make it such that they will find Christ is beyond any abuse I can think of inflicting on them. Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption - there’s no basis in scripture for that.
No one is beyond redemption prior to their death. To teach otherwise is heretical.
Then don't be so foolish as to teach them that. Teach them that God loves them because He has given His own Son to pay for their sins because God's "promise is to believers and their children."
Tell them God loves them so much He will bring them to Him, one way or another, and that He will never, ever let go of them.
Tell them that because God loves them they are precious in His sight and that they will believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior because God has numbered them among His family from before the foundation of the world.
Then leave the rest to God. Our job is to bring up children who kneel to none but Christ and who know their salvation is by Christ alone, confident that He loves those whom we love because God gave us our children in the first place.
Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption - there's no basis in scripture for that.
???
If you really think that, after I've given you Scripture for every word you just wrote, then I've done all I can to aid your vision. After all, it's God who gives eyes to see and ears to hear.
No one is beyond redemption prior to their death.
We don't know the names of the elect, so we judge men by their fruit.
But it's clear from Scripture that some men are "beyond redemption." Christ Himself said it would have been better for Judas never to have been born than for what awaited him, and that Christ knew from the beginning who would betray Him so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled.
Was there ever a chance Judas wouldn't betray Christ, the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?"
Amen, for those with ears to hear.
rules of fr says to ping those you talk about
8~)
Secret Agent man, John Drake, that’s you, you Chauvinist,lol
If one's goal is to ALWAYS become more and more Christ-like, then it is a life-long process. We never run out of opportunity to improve in that area until we become equal with Christ, an impossibility.
St. Symeon the new Theologian, put it simply: "I therefore, as you see, did not fast, I did not keep vigil, nor did I sleep on the ground, yet I humbled myself and Lord saved me." ["On Faith"]
Something has always confused me about that quote. Isn't fasting the essence of making oneself humble? If so, then this appears to contradict.
The early Church certainly treated those who were martyred as having been sanctified more than others.
That's not an unreasonable inference, since there is evidence that they were willing to take the risk of having something happen to them. That willingness is a good indicator of strong faith.
“Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption”
I quoted YOU! You wrote this in that thread!
“We don’t know the names of the elect, so we judge men by their fruit.
But it’s clear from Scripture that some men are “beyond redemption.” Christ Himself said it would have been better for Judas never to have been born than for what awaited him, and that Christ knew from the beginning who would betray Him so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled.”
This is the definition of the doctrine of Election. Maybe you’re chosen, and maybe you’re not. Hope you got lucky!
I feel sorry for you.
Yes, the god Jean Cauvin created in his own dark image.
bookmark
That sound Orthodox to you, FK? It should. In any event, proof texting the Fathers will almost always lead you off the track, especially when you have no sense for the consensus patrum.
Yes, that sounds very Orthodox. And I was trying to be fair when I said: "Now, in all fairness, I do not declare whether +Athanasius actually would have agreed with my inference. :)". Translation: +Athanasius probably WOULDN'T agree with me. :) I was just commenting on how the words "sound" to a non-Orthodox.
Sounds like consent to me. Christian God does not rape.
Well, you read it as Mary saying: "I will grant you my grace such that I will allow you to save humanity." I read it as Mary saying: "Yes sir." If I agreed with the Apostolic theology on this I would not venerate Mary at all, I would worship her openly for she would be worth it. As you said, God was "impotent" to the task until Mary gave her permission. Perhaps you can understand better why Protestants look with raised eyebrows towards the veneration of Mary. :) If she really is everything you guys say she is, then she really would be worthy of worship.
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