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Conclusion from Peru and Mexico
email from Randall Easter | 25 January 2008 | Randall Easter

Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg

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To: RinaseaofDs
That's garbage. We were created in the image of God, from the beginning. We would have remained as such if not Lucifer had taken a hand, and convinced Eve to disobey God.

lol. You just contradicted yourself. We were created in the image of God, but as you rightly point out, things changed after the Fall.

Since the Fall...

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." -- John 6:65

Rebellion is not in our nature, but free will is in our nature.

Free will appears no where in the Bible. Unlike rebellion, which is made very clear to those with eyes to see...

"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:3-7

I hope you're actually reading these verses. You don't seem to be able to offer any Scritpural rebuttal against what they tell us.

Love isn't love unless its freely given and freely accepted.

That is straight from Hallmark. That is not the love God has for His family which was declared by God from before the foundation of the world.

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." -- Jude 1:24-25

How does Christ "present us faultless before God?" By imputing His righteousness to us.

And you still have no response to Ephesians 1. That should tell you something. If you've read the Bible, it's been through the lens of men and not of the Holy Spirit.

5,141 posted on 04/25/2008 12:58:22 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: stfassisi
This truth also Holy Scripture confirms, saying: God is light, and there is no darkness in Him, (I John i, 5)

Amen. And yet God created Satan, who was a "murderer from the beginning."

If God truly didn't want any evil within His creation, He could easily erase Satan from all existence.

And yet He doesn't.

Obviously evil serves a purpose of God, just as heresy serves a purpose...

"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." -- 1 Corinthains 11:19

God is all holy and within Him there is no evil. Yet God created Satan and permits Satan to prowl the earth, spewing lies.

Thankfully, by His word we know that...

"God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10


5,142 posted on 04/25/2008 1:08:09 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

YUP


5,143 posted on 04/25/2008 1:08:32 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: blue-duncan

lol. Oodles, apparently.


5,144 posted on 04/25/2008 1:08:58 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Psalm 115:3, But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.


5,145 posted on 04/25/2008 1:14:31 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RinaseaofDs; kosta50; blue-duncan
“”If God truly didn't want any evil within His creation, He could easily erase Satan from all existence.””

Everything is one NOW with God.

The devil's pride, Adam and Eve's fall ,yours and my sins,the beginning and end of the world is all one EVENT and NOW with God

God who is love has created and willed all things in perfection and love.

All corrupted nature and sin is man's free doing,not God's

5,146 posted on 04/25/2008 1:22:35 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RinaseaofDs; kosta50; blue-duncan
Here is some more aquinas to help you understand,Dear Sister

That Creation is not Successive

Succession is proper to movement. But creation is not movement. Therefore there is in it no succession.
2. In every successive movement there is some medium between the extremes. But between being and not-being, which are the extremes in creation, there can be no medium, and therefore no succession.

3. In every making, in which there is succession, the process of being made is before the state of achieved completion. But this cannot happen in creation, because, for the process of being made to precede the achieved completion of the creature, there would be required some subject in which the process might take place. Such a subject cannot be the creature itself, of whose creation we are speaking, because that creature is not till the state of its achieved completion is realised. Nor can it be the Maker, because to be in movement is an actuality, not of mover, but of moved. And as for the process of being made having for its subject any pre-existing material, that is against the very idea of creation. Thus succession is impossible in the act of creation.

5. Successive stages in the making of things become necessary, owing to defect of the matter, which is not sufficiently disposed from the first for the reception of the form. Hence, when the matter is already perfectly disposed for the form, it receives it in an instant. Thus because a transparent medium is always in final disposition for light, it lights up at once in the presence of any actually shining thing. Now in creation nothing is prerequisite on the part of the matter, nor is anything wanting to the agent for action. It follows that creation takes place in an instant: a thing is at once in the act of being created and is created, as light is at once being shed and is shining.

5,147 posted on 04/25/2008 1:33:36 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I only offer John 3:16. It alone is sufficient.

Other’s seem to be doing a pretty good job supporting my interpretation of things with scripture, and with St. Thomas Aquinas, actually.

God does not set us up to fail. We are unworthy, every one of us. All are called, but few respond. Those few accept the perfect sacrifice of Christ and are saved.

How we come to Christ, or don’t come to Christ, is on each individual.

I read the Bible, each day, and to my children.

To teach my children that God has not put a heart in you that will make it such that they will find Christ is beyond any abuse I can think of inflicting on them. Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption - there’s no basis in scripture for that.

No one is beyond redemption prior to their death. To teach otherwise is heretical.


5,148 posted on 04/25/2008 2:13:14 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: RinaseaofDs; blue-duncan; Gamecock
To teach my children that God has not put a heart in you that will make it such that they will find Christ is beyond any abuse I can think of inflicting on them.

Then don't be so foolish as to teach them that. Teach them that God loves them because He has given His own Son to pay for their sins because God's "promise is to believers and their children."

Tell them God loves them so much He will bring them to Him, one way or another, and that He will never, ever let go of them.

Tell them that because God loves them they are precious in His sight and that they will believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior because God has numbered them among His family from before the foundation of the world.

Then leave the rest to God. Our job is to bring up children who kneel to none but Christ and who know their salvation is by Christ alone, confident that He loves those whom we love because God gave us our children in the first place.

Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption - there's no basis in scripture for that.

???

If you really think that, after I've given you Scripture for every word you just wrote, then I've done all I can to aid your vision. After all, it's God who gives eyes to see and ears to hear.

No one is beyond redemption prior to their death.

We don't know the names of the elect, so we judge men by their fruit.

But it's clear from Scripture that some men are "beyond redemption." Christ Himself said it would have been better for Judas never to have been born than for what awaited him, and that Christ knew from the beginning who would betray Him so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled.

Was there ever a chance Judas wouldn't betray Christ, the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?"

5,149 posted on 04/25/2008 3:12:32 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: blue-duncan

Amen, for those with ears to hear.


5,150 posted on 04/25/2008 3:13:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RinaseaofDs; Dr. Eckleburg

rules of fr says to ping those you talk about


5,151 posted on 04/25/2008 3:29:44 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings
"Danger" is my middle name.

8~)

5,152 posted on 04/25/2008 3:41:32 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Secret Agent man, John Drake, that’s you, you Chauvinist,lol


5,153 posted on 04/25/2008 3:47:18 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi
It can't be a life-long process because some have shorter lives then other. Becoming Chirst-like in your heart is the key. It's the Beatitudes. A person who is Christ-like in his heart will do Christ-like things, if he has a chance.

If one's goal is to ALWAYS become more and more Christ-like, then it is a life-long process. We never run out of opportunity to improve in that area until we become equal with Christ, an impossibility.

St. Symeon the new Theologian, put it simply: "I therefore, as you see, did not fast, I did not keep vigil, nor did I sleep on the ground, yet I humbled myself and Lord saved me." ["On Faith"]

Something has always confused me about that quote. Isn't fasting the essence of making oneself humble? If so, then this appears to contradict.

The early Church certainly treated those who were martyred as having been sanctified more than others.

That's not an unreasonable inference, since there is evidence that they were willing to take the risk of having something happen to them. That willingness is a good indicator of strong faith.

5,154 posted on 04/25/2008 4:29:26 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“Maybe Christ will grab you by the throat, carve out your heart of stone, and put one of flesh in them that is receptive to His redemption”

I quoted YOU! You wrote this in that thread!


5,155 posted on 04/25/2008 4:41:51 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“We don’t know the names of the elect, so we judge men by their fruit.

But it’s clear from Scripture that some men are “beyond redemption.” Christ Himself said it would have been better for Judas never to have been born than for what awaited him, and that Christ knew from the beginning who would betray Him so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled.”

This is the definition of the doctrine of Election. Maybe you’re chosen, and maybe you’re not. Hope you got lucky!

I feel sorry for you.


5,156 posted on 04/25/2008 4:49:02 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: kosta50
I don't see Christ doing any of this. You must know some other God.

Yes, the god Jean Cauvin created in his own dark image.

5,157 posted on 04/25/2008 4:53:00 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Mad Dawg

bookmark


5,158 posted on 04/25/2008 5:54:03 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50
+Athanasius’ opinion of the Most Holy Theotokos was, well, real high: “Oh noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin?”

That sound Orthodox to you, FK? It should. In any event, proof texting the Fathers will almost always lead you off the track, especially when you have no sense for the consensus patrum.

Yes, that sounds very Orthodox. And I was trying to be fair when I said: "Now, in all fairness, I do not declare whether +Athanasius actually would have agreed with my inference. :)". Translation: +Athanasius probably WOULDN'T agree with me. :) I was just commenting on how the words "sound" to a non-Orthodox.

5,159 posted on 04/25/2008 6:00:35 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD
Nothing happened until Mary gave her consent.

"And Mary said, 'Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.' [Luk 1:38]

Sounds like consent to me. Christian God does not rape.

Well, you read it as Mary saying: "I will grant you my grace such that I will allow you to save humanity." I read it as Mary saying: "Yes sir." If I agreed with the Apostolic theology on this I would not venerate Mary at all, I would worship her openly for she would be worth it. As you said, God was "impotent" to the task until Mary gave her permission. Perhaps you can understand better why Protestants look with raised eyebrows towards the veneration of Mary. :) If she really is everything you guys say she is, then she really would be worthy of worship.

5,160 posted on 04/25/2008 7:38:26 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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