Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
But, FK, you are telling me what God is like because you a priori accept as truth what is written about Him. I am simply using your own style and it seems to irritate you. Welcome to the club!
You are defining reality according to your beliefs, as a matter of fact. Those who don't share your beliefs are simply classified as spiritually "blind" and "deaf." Yet, you don't have a shred of evidence to prove anything because the "proof" requires that one already believe in order to have the "eyes" and "ears."
If faith is given, then no amount of text-proofing and cherry-picking the Bible will "prove" anything. But the Protestants say God gives faith, yet they use the Bible to "prove" that which they cannot give, namely faith! How silly is that?
What's the use of showing pictures to a blind man? What's the point of playing music to a deaf man? What's the use of showing Bible verses to a nonbeliever? What effort is it to "prove" the Bible to someone who already believes? It's all Protestant/Baptist feel-good, man-made stuff, FK. It's all fluff. It's a same-minded club where everyone goes around quoting the Bible and everyone saying "Amen, Amen!" and patting each other on the back.
To you, the Eucharist is a symbol or a ritual. To the Orthodox and Catholic it is a mystery (sacrament) of God's real presence. It's a matter of belief. It's not something one can objectively prove. And we state it as such every Sunday
It's our belief.
I am too, FK. This is what you wrote:
This is pure conjecture. First, what is the low level "true" faith? Then, how do you know that sanctification begins? Because you are tested? Or is this sanctification now a fucntion of some other factors you didn't come up with earlier?
Second, how does it benefit us if finding "true" faith is salvific? Is there a greater benefit than what Christ accomplished on the Cross? Sure seems that way from the way you write.
Third, our sanctification make us more "useful" [sic] to God so He can finish His "plan?" Are we "helping" God along?
This brings up some problems, FK. What about Judas. Was he also "helping" God accomplish His "plan?" Was he also "sanctified?" Does this mean that somehow, in a twisted heretic way, Judas was really a "friend" of Jesus? "Helping" Him accomplish His task? After all, without Judas' betrayal, Jesus could not die for our sins!
Or did Judas have no power to do but what God destined him to do, in which case he did nothing wrong?!? He was just one of those useful but disposable human beings the Reformed God created for His own glory?
The lord in the metaphor didn't talk about going in and coming out..
He was concerned about getting them out.. but being sheep they could wander back in, I suppose.. The lord Jesus never used the word heresy or even developed the meme of it.. Since theres no ONE pen the inhabitants of one pen would naturally see the inhabitants of another pen as heretics.. Since the walls of the metaphorical pen are dogma, ceremony and/or tradition and possibly intimidation.. Its easy to lose track of what we are talking about here..
Starving in the pen is a good point.. The wisdom would be get out of the pen were there is much food that don't smell of ammonia or shut up and eat the grain you are given.. The lord reacted strongly to the pen of the synagogue..
***Yes or no, does man determine what God’s revelation to man is?***
Of course not. God’s revelation is His and not man’s.
On the other hand, fallible men can fall short of understanding that revelation.
***That depends on whether we say the Bible is a work of men, or a work of God through men. If we say the latter, then all of your above, ......... well .......... goes away. :)***
God is perfect; men are not. Example: Beethoven created some of the most perfect music that has ever been created. If a pianist cannot play it well, is that Beethoven’s fault?
BTTT
Thats the spirit.. get into the metaphor don't fear it..
Breathe, breathe, must remember to breathe ....
The lord in the metaphor didn't talk about going in and coming out..
Not sure if relevant but I was thinking John 10:7-9, especially. "...(7)I am the door of the sheep ... (9)I am the door; if any one enters by me he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. ..."
Thats the spirit.. get into the metaphor don't fear it..
Breathe, breathe, must remember to breathe ....
The lord in the metaphor didn't talk about going in and coming out..
Not sure if relevant but I was thinking John 10:7-9, especially. "...(7)I am the door of the sheep ... (9)I am the door; if any one enters by me he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. ..."
Thanks hosepipe for a very thoughtful idea. We can note also that these pens have a porter, which is more like a prison cell than a sheep pen.
The pens are more likely for slaughter
“It’s not my FAULT!” (Han Solo)
It is always your fault
Perhaps the idea of the open courtyard can refer to the temple, and "the sheep" outside of the main "house."
Sheepies really do seem to be very "auditory". I had several who would come when called, and sheep who are calm and even affectionate around their owners would spook at me when I came to check 'em out or to shear them.
But sheepies are penned for protection from predators. I don't know when guardian dogs came into use. My two Great Pyrenees were wonderful dogs, as people, but were not perfect as guardians. And without guardian dogs, penning them at night would make sense now that coyotes have moved in next door. I lost two really good lambs once (I might haave used one for a stud), and coyotes were our best guess.
Are we married?
What is very interesting with the word "flocks" and "cattle" etc. is that in the bible you will find different words used, in the Hebrew especially, which gives another higher meaning to some flocks, ie, believers.
No pardner, this ain’t no “Brokeback Republic”, but that was funny. You crack me up
And also interesting, the temple had porters, gatekeepers.
BTTT
If Jesus were accused of NOT knowing about the future denominations and schismatic penchant of "the sheep" this metaphor might be used as evidence.. OF PROPHECY..
Kosta to FK -””He uses the good and the evil to accomplish His plan, isn’t that what your theology teaches? This is not an endorsement of Mohammad’s work any more than saying that Judas did his part in God’s plan. Did either have a choice? “”
After all God gives us faith or lack of faith; God hardens our hearts or he doesn’t. God saves some and God destroys others. It’s all the Reformed God’s doing.””
Blessed Thomas Aquinas sums this up beautifully....
That in God there can be no Evil
“ESSENTIAL being, and essential goodness, and all other things that bear the name of ‘essential,’ contain no admixture of any foreign element; although a thing that is good may contain something else besides being and goodness, for there is nothing to prevent the subject of one perfection being the subject also of another. Everything is contained within the bounds of its essential idea in such sort as to render it incapable of containing within itself any foreign element. But God is goodness, not merely good. There cannot therefore be in Him anything that is not goodness, and so evil cannot be in Him at all.
3. As God is His own being, nothing can be said of God that signifies participation. If therefore evil could be predicated of Him, the predication would not signify participation, but essence. Now evil cannot be predicated of any being so as to be the essence of any: for to an essentially evil thing there would be wanting being, since being is good.* There cannot be any extraneous admixture in evil, as such, any more than in goodness. Evil therefore cannot be predicated of God.
5. A thing is perfect in so far as it is in actuality: therefore it will be imperfect inasmuch as it is failing in actuality. Evil therefore is either a privation, or includes a privation, or is nothing. But the subject of privation is potentiality; and that cannot be in God: therefore neither can evil.
This truth also Holy Scripture confirms, saying: God is light, and there is no darkness in Him, (I John i, 5) Far from God impiety, and iniquity from the Almighty (Job xxxiv, 10). “” Thomas Aquinas - Of God and His Creatures
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