Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
I don't know. I have difficulty believing that when He said "it's finished (accomplished)" He meant that St. Paul was supposed to add to His teaching because somehow it wasn't finished, that somehow He left his mission incomplete!
Well, I suppose we have a great deal of disagreement over exactly WHAT was finished. Since I believe that the Bible is God's revelation to man, and none of the NT had been written yet when Christ died, I KNOW the "it" could not have referred to that. The "it" refers to Christ's complete, final, and total atonement for the sins of His elect. If true, then His death has meaning. If all Christ did with His life was make it possible for us to save ourselves by doing enough works, then I consider it a cheap death because not a single person enters Heaven JUST BECAUSE Christ died.
As for Revelation, was not Christ Himself the fullness of God's revelation? We needed Revelation on top of that? As if Christ didn't finish His mission?
I'm not sure what that means. The fullness of God's revelation could be expressed as Christ Himself, plus the Holy Spirit, plus the Scriptures, plus creation itself, and perhaps other things. (I think AG has said something very close to this before.) Anyway, the full revelation of God is certainly more than one group of men's interpretation of the Gospels alone.
Any cursory study of ancient manuscripts will tell you that ancient writers use quotes in a distinctly different manner then we do. Ancient usage of quotes is not verbatim transcription of someone's utterances, but what the author believed that someone intended to say. This flies in the face of usage of quotes just as our terminology (coming from OT) is given Christianized meaning which differs from that in Judaism.
That can't be. NT quotes of OT statements are VERBATIM. In the desert, Jesus quotes verbatim. It is satan who misquotes scripture, as he did when he lied to Eve about what God said. Under what you are saying your reverence for the Gospels would have to be thrown out if all it amounts to is the "best efforts" to remember specific conversations from decades earlier. Nobody could do that in such detail (on his own).
I'd bet that my thinking tends to err in a panentheistic direction (as a, I say hopefully, redeemed pantheistic attitude), to the extent that my (I do not like this term) "spirituality" (new project, find a better word for that) has come from intense engagement with "nature". The first two times God snuck up on me and hit me on the head were when I was outdoors, once gazing at a lane of Laurels in bloom and once bow-hunting bunnies. AND pre-Xtian influences were Plato and Plotinus.
BUT I think you're giving Aquinas a bad rap, maybe, in this way: I think he thinks we can know that there is a God by reason, but we can't know God or know who he is by reason. (Since I'll be at church later on I'll try to tackle the most Thomistic of the guys and ask him if that's a fair glib summary.)
(BTW: despite bad temper, I am actually very patient and willing to let things take their course. What may strike folks as me being surprised by the unexpected may be me just saying,"At last, here we are!" I know that some things just take time and that if you take the top off the kettle it'll just take that much longer to come to a boil, while if you sit back, sooner or later - Sholem aleikem! - it's boiling!)
And for another inflicting of my self on the conversation, I DO like "process". My favorite part of bridge is the bidding - because of the requirement that two people communicate and plan and reach an agreement in a highly artificial and stylized language.
” For the record, it is always a blessing to be falsely accused for Christ’s sake.”
I am stunned! Do you honestly believe that our questioning of your bona fides, your motivations, the substance of your demonstrations of piety and the innovative content of your postings means you are being falsely accused for Christ’s sake??????????????????????????? What incredible presumption! You are being questioned, accused if you will, on account of the the content of your posts which I suggest are not born of Christ but rather of a more mundane source.
By the way, is there a reason for the idiosyncratic font on your postings? Is it to designate the word of God on FR per A-G or is it simply a way of saying “look at me”?
I know the reason for A-G's font. It's to make me feel old. Itty-bitty letters, man .... Jeesh!
“I’m always willing to learn more about Greek theology, K.”
Centuries before +John of Damascus, the Cappadocian Fathers, in discussing God using apophatic theology, said “I believe in God; God does not “exist”.” Its a provocative statement at first blush, but if you think about it and about God, it is of course perfectly true and in a way speaks about an uncreated energy of God, though perhaps it says more about the source and nature of “existence” than it does about God Himself.
Yes. You know that I am a Reformer, yet there is a way that I can agree with much of this. I agree that God is not impressed and won't respond when the non-elect stamp their feet, etc. Anyway, when God changes the heart of an elect, it is not necessarily an instant happening. Often, it is a gradual process. So, for His elect, I would say that God does whatever level of convincing that is required, according to God's design of the person. I, for example, am a "sledgehammer" guy (referring to what is needed). So, that's what God used after I rejected the initial "tugs". It wasn't that God "kept on trying", it was His entire plan all along that it would take exactly as long as it took. And of course I learned throughout the whole process, to my benefit from then on. :)
Thank you so much for reprising it here, dearest sister in Christ!
Considering the cost and the "efficacy" in such case, it's not worth tax-payers' money.
Oh, I'm not so sure. If we just considered the cost of every new person per year without a wall in terms of health care, prisons (along with the societal loss because of the crimes committed), and free education how long do you think it would take to pay for a wall? I've heard estimates that it would cost about $9 billion for the whole wall. It would pay for itself very quickly I think.
FK: "I'm not sure that a president really has the clout to pressure local law enforcement anymore."
Sure he does. One way to do it is through Congressional allocations of federal money. The President has a lot of clout, especially when it comes to homeland security. We are talking national borders here.
That's a good point. A motivated pro-border-security President could probably make things happen. I'll give you that one.
Be careful how you judge, dear Kolokotronis, lest ye shall also be judged.
An Eastern Orthodox, an American Baptist (or a member of any other reformed confession), and a Roman Catholic are to my way of thinking and believing all members of the One Body of Christ. While we revere the particular traditions to which we belong, we are finally all united in Christ.
It distresses me to no end that Christians should dispute and quarrel with one another.... Especially these days, when our Christian culture is under implacable attack, we ought instead to stand united against the Common Enemy.
My two cents, for what it's worth.
Here is the promise again:
All of us who have been the object of such false accusations should be rejoicing! In a meager way perhaps but nevertheless, suffering such things makes us a partaker with Christ:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. – Romans 8:16-18
Your post 2829 for instance makes an oblique reference to Orthodox Christians being accused of worshiping “stumps.”
Dear Kolokotronis, if that is a false accusation you and your fellow Orthodox are suffering for Christ’s sake, you should never be upset over it – or meet fire with fire. You should be rejoicing as I do because of the promise.
When I am called “Gnostic” or “Heretic” or “Apostate” or “Infidel” – or when I am accused of demonic ESP or snake handling or Spiritual shallowness and other such things, I rejoice! And no matter how initially shocking the charge might be, the above promise comes to mind - as does this warning to me which tempers my reaction:
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. - 1 John 4:7-11
I’m trying this one without the font size html. Please let me know if it is more readable to you.
Maranatha, Jesus!!!
To God be the glory!
Personally, I prefer the ten-point font size....
What a marvelous, beautiful, gracious essay/post, dearest sister in Christ!
And I too much prefer this size font!
Why are you shouting? I could hear you just as you were.
I have no idea. It seems like everything that could have gone wrong for true conservatives, did go wrong this time. I just hope this cycle is a one-time anomaly.
INDEED.
Was wondering how you were going to comment. LOL.
All very fitting comments in this string of them . . . as usual.
” Your reply is very curious, dear Kolokotronis – because instead of receiving the promise as a Spiritual Truth applicable to all of us Christians you have evidently presumed that the promise applies only to me.
Here is the promise again:
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. - Matthew 5:11-12”
Curious? Like I said, you are being questioned because of the content of your posts which I believe have a source other than God. Your comments remind me of a convert couple at our parish many years ago who became convinced that any use of the Gregorian calendar by The Church was heretical, not a violation of a disciplinary canon but heresy. When very few people were interested in what they were spouting off about, they sent a mass email to everyone outlining their position and announcing they were leaving for a particularly rigid, almost cult-like group which claims to be Orthodox. When the priest confronted them about their pride, they announced that, “Like
God’s Holy Apostles, we are called to suffer for the Faith.”
They got laughed at. They left and years later came back... minus the pride and are now much cherished members of the community.
The 23rd Psalm expresses the joy and assurance we have in our walk in the Light - both in this mortal life and in the life to come.
Praise God!!!
Thank you for your reply and for sharing your testimony and concerns!
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