[Forest Keeper]

He may have designed us to relate responsively to Him with say a level of proof at 5.0. Yet, if we stamp our feet and insist on our own way unless He provides a level of proof at 9.9 . . . He is not likely to be impressed nor compliant with our demands of Him on that score.

Yes. You know that I am a Reformer, yet there is a way that I can agree with much of this. I agree that God is not impressed and won't respond when the non-elect stamp their feet, etc. Anyway, when God changes the heart of an elect, it is not necessarily an instant happening. Often, it is a gradual process. So, for His elect, I would say that God does whatever level of convincing that is required, according to God's design of the person. I, for example, am a "sledgehammer" guy (referring to what is needed). So, that's what God used after I rejected the initial "tugs". It wasn't that God "kept on trying", it was His entire plan all along that it would take exactly as long as it took. And of course I learned throughout the whole process, to my benefit from then on. :)

[Alamo-Girl]

Anyway, when God changes the heart of an elect, it is not necessarily an instant happening. Often, it is a gradual process. So, for His elect, I would say that God does whatever level of convincing that is required, according to God's design of the person. I, for example, am a "sledgehammer" guy (referring to what is needed). So, that's what God used after I rejected the initial "tugs". It wasn't that God "kept on trying", it was His entire plan all along that it would take exactly as long as it took. And of course I learned throughout the whole process, to my benefit from then on. :)

Truly, God is our Father who art in heaven. Perfect Father that He is - and Spiritual toddlers that we are - if we are so pigheaded that we must touch a stove to know it is hot, He lets us. LOLOL!

To God be the glory!

[Quix]

Plenty of truth.

However, God doesn’t put up with rebellion, ultimately, from anyone—particularly ‘the elect.’

[kosta50]

Yes. You know that I am a Reformer, yet there is a way that I can agree with much of this. I agree that God is not impressed and won't respond when the non-elect stamp their feet, etc

And how would you know who is elect or non-elect? If St. Thomas was a doubting Apostles (as all of them were), does that mean they wee not "elect?" How presumptuous!