Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Sorry, I must be blunt about this: you really don't know Church history, do you? When exactly did the Church receive "state sponsorship?" And when exactly did the Church combat heresies?
There is no gap. The Gospels were accepted immediately. By 100 AD all four Gospels were used as scripture. The first to "canonize" the Christian Bible was Marcion, a heretic, who rejected all but Paul's Epistles and parts of Acts, and rejected the rest of the NT and all of Old Testament.
After Marcion, various churches used various books, many of which were later rejected, in the readings during the liturgy. Many, if not most, New Testament deterocanonicals were regarded as "questionable." The book of Revelation was first accepted in the East then placed in the "questionable" category for nine centuries, and is still of dubious character in the East, although officially recognized as scripture.
Similarly, the book of Hebrews was not accepted in the West. So, the Church fathers bargained for an even exchange: for the East to accept Revelation and for the West to accept Hebrews as a compromise.
Sure doesn't sound very inspired to me. In other words, no one knew for sure.
The anti-intellecutal, anti-historical, andti-empirical stance of some religious zealots is promoting ignorance and blind beliefs, if nor superstition.
What would you be without knowing who your parents are or were, or where you come from (personal history)? You could makes yourself to be anything you want to be, and live in delusion.
What would America mean to us if we didn't know it's history? We could make up any myth about it and believe it. What would the Bible mean if we didn't know its history? Anything we want it to be, which is pretty much what Protestants make of it imo.
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
The way the Jews used the term "Holy Spirit" (i.e. the Spirit of God) is as "power of God," not as a some edifying divine hypostasis that hijacks your soul. The power of God was the energy that God bestowed on His people to forge on, not to interpret, understand, or have faith.
The problem is that we are using the same Jewish words with altered (Christianized) meaning, the way the word "cool" meant one thing in 1920, and another in 1980. But, without historical context, such a word could not be interpreted correctly in different usage because its original meaning would be lost.
This is where historical and cultural content and the language come in and are crucial in understanding what is meant.
That Luke was a Jew in his faith is rendered doubtless from the fact that he still believes in "Shoel" and the "righteous." That the Apostles were Jews in their faith is made manifest in the very first chapter of Acts when they ask Jesus if He will restore the Kingdom of Israel. IN other words, they saw Him as a Jewish messiah, not God.
And the word "Son of God" is also one of those words we get from Judaism which a changed meaning. The term "son of God" never ever meant God in the Old Testament. It is a term used for angels and kings. Not even St. Paul does explicitly say that Jesus was God, but an image of God (because he was the ideal man in his mind, the second Adam, who was also an image of God).
We were warned about not placing our trust in historic ancestry...Luke 3:8
Yeah, sure, maybe that's why Luke lists the genealogy of Jesus as "proof" of His Davidic ancestry...We can read into the bible anything our heart desires once we strip it of its historical, linguistic and cultural antecedents.
***”These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” — Acts 17:11***
They searched the OT to see how it fit with the Gospel preached to them.
***I believe the Lord has done as He promised. He has preserved His word through all ages and turmoil and deceit and darkness, even when some corrupted men chained the Bible to their altar to prevent the world from reading the words of God and knowing the truth which sets men free.***
I thought that you claimed knowledge, not belief.
The idea of prevention of people from reading the Bible is yet another Reformation base canard. Those who believe it ignore historical fact. It is no wonder that the ability to ignore and twist history often makes the transition over to the ability to ignore and twist Scripture as well.
***The Orthodox have never “left”, HD. We’re right where we have been for the past 2050 years. :)
........
As a matter of fact the filioque is no longer considered “normative” by the Latins.***
Correct on both counts. The twisting and corrupting of history appears to bother, or even interest, very few of the Reformers.
***Kosta really, surely you know few could even write.. anywhere even in Isreal.. Especially during the dark ages.. In Europe some could barely write.. to transact business but little more..***
Then translating the Bible into the vernacular before widespread literacy would have done what?
This is why history is anathema for Protestants. Without it, you can make up anything you want. The Christians did nothing. The Christians went to Church and the various books were read in different churches. The bishops, who hold the apostolic authority as the "elders" in the Church, were the ones determining which book is what.
But I understand why Protestants must reject this historical fact (and it also explains the vehement anti-historical attitude of the same): historical facts totally destroy their superstition otherwise known as the "sola scriptura."
Your statement can be proven wrong simply by the fact that the oldest extant Christian Bible, Codex Sinaiticus, dating back to the middle of the 4th century, contains two books that are no longer considered canonical: the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermes.
At some point, after apparently more than 300 years, someone decided these were no longer "inspired."
***CAUTION: Where ever TWO meet in my name there am I in the midst of them.. Jesus thru the Holy Spirit..
“WE” are being “WATCHED”...***
People may meet in His name; He is surely watching us; but it does not guarantee that they are doing what He has commanded us to do. Does the KKK not gather in His name? The Aryan Nation?
Invoking God does not mean that you are avoiding evil; there are too many commonplace examples to prove this point.
They did search the OT because the NT didn't exist yet, and they searched the Septuagint (because in Thessalonika they spoke Greek), to check against St. Paul's gospel.
The Apostolic Church, on the other hand, checks the Gospels to interpret correctly St. Paul, and the rest of the New Testament, and in the light of the New Testament, the Old Testament.
So, either way, what the Protestants are proposing is backwards. I am not sure how could the Bereans check St. Paul's gospel against the OT, except for some of his quotes form that source, and some of those "quotes" are not quotes but concoctions of various verses from various books and various chapters.
It's like using words from different editions, dating back to different era, of a daily newspaper to create a "quote" that fits your teaching!
And where did they find "Christ crucified" and "saved by faith alone" in the Old Testament? Or where did they find that one does not have to follow the Law in the Old Testament? Or where did they find that the Gentiles are really "extended Israel" in the OT?
***Love is sacrifice.***
No it is not. Love is an emotional condition. Sacrifice is works.
***What you sacrifice for; you love***
Usually, but not guaranteed.
***Sacrificing your personal resources and self brings joy***
Gotta watch this. Renaissance Italians and West Coast Indians gave huge parties in which they sacrificed part of their wealth. Not all sacrifices are good or pleasing to God.
TRUE... it is a propaganda hit piece.. Written so that people in future times could not re-write history.. Written as a memorial to heinous suffering and malfeasance.. John said as much himself.. Except the word propaganda had not been coined yet.. At the time of "its" writing the Roman Catholic hierarchy had real civil power in many country's..
Its no secret that several Popes were no more than con men and robbers if not murderers and Sadists.. Fox's Book of Martyrs testifys to some but by means not all the goings on that John Fox knew of..
The testimony that the Roman Catholic Church was a Cultic aberation during certain times in its history is recorded elsewhere as well.. i.e. Millers Church History.. Halles handbook..
It has been said, "Power does corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".. Its no mystery that this can happen.. It happened to some Calvinist situations as well.. Wading thru the muck of church history takes a strong stomach.. Many have not the strengh for it.. Isreal became corrupted as well, several times.. Which is WHY God sent Prophets when Civil power(the Kingdom) was corrupted..
***MB: I could point out many public examples (and private ones, too) of the Reformed who went the other way.
WF: Works, works, works that’s all you have. I pray some day you see how little they do for you.***
Are you claiming that the Reformed elect can commit any sin in any quantities, refuse repentence, and still be welcomed into Heaven?
***If the Holy Spirit indwells you the works you value so highly will occur. However, those works will not cause the Holy Spirit to indwell you no matter how hard you try.***
Have you not been paying attention? The Holy Spirit comes to Christians through baptism. He does not drop out of a tree like a leopard in the jungle.
***Gal.5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. ***
The fruit of the Spirit, sure. Do all the elect display the fruit of the Spirit? I see many who claim that status not displaying them. Are they wrong? Does this mean that anyone who is angry is not of the elect? Does this mean that anyone who loses control goes to hell? What do you mean by quoting this verse?
***I rather have Faith in the Judge than depend on deeds.***
What do the Reformed think that they are being Judged on? I have seen Reformed claims right here that state that they will not be Judged. If you are not Judged on your deeds, then what ARE you judged on?
It would have educated the educated and made possible the filtering down (of biblcal truths) to the uneducated.. Thereby educating them about education.. Which it did.. Many learned to READ just for this purpose of seeking God.. Which LIFTED the great unwashed.. Oh! and a plethora of OTHER reasons..
East influenced by atheism? Atheism is a product of Western Protestant angry wrathful tyrant God, whom no one can love but only fear (if you confuse fear with love, there is a medical term for that). Atheism was born in the West and seems to flourish in the Western, Protestant Europe, and is growing in America.
TRUE.. a trip thru South America to observe various local Roman Catholic rites and ceremonys will show you that religion can come off the rails.. Icons are not meant to be worshipped but many do(worldwide) anyway(worship) with abandon and Satanic glee.. The Vatican would demur to allow it, but does anyway.. Peotestants come off the rails as do Roman Catholics.. and Eastern Orthodox as well.. You must not get out much..
All People sacrifice.. Some sacrifice to get indulgences in various forms.. Sacrifice is in effect love.. i.e. "pick up your own cross and follow me"... "Love God, and be nice to your neoghbor" is "THE" commandment(s)..
TAKERS sacrifice reluctantly anyway, GIVERS take(receive) reluctantly anyway.. The "love coin" has sacrificeing on one side and receiving on the other..
***Why did God plant that tree in the garden? ***
We know of two trees - the trees of life and of the knowledge of good and evil. God put them both there but He did not make Eve listen to the serpent, neither did He make either of them eat. He had the foreknowledge, but He did not make them. Why did He plant the tree? To allow Adam and Eve to choose.
***Why did God establish the penalty for sin before sin was done?***
God is outside of time and all Creation is at once to Him. There is no before and no after. Alpha and Omega. God is I AM forever and at once. It only seemed “before” to creatures placed within time.
***God planned for Jesus to die before the beginning of the world.***
You are not in any way comparing Jesus’ actions to Adam’s are you? Or are you saying that Jesus is subordinate to God in a similar fashion to the LDS folks?
***you keep asking the same questions without ever answering ours.***
I don’t see that many questions from the Reformed. In my opinion, the Reformed seem to concentrate on making statements of faith supported by non Gospel miniquotes.
God didn’t MAKE Adam sin any more than He MAKES, ie irishtenor, sin or not sin. He provides the grace that enables us to journey on the Way; He gives us sacraments and the Church to aid us. God wishes none to perish. But we have free will; we can perish if we so choose.
***kosta: You can’t ,on the one hand, give Church credit for knowing which books are inspired, and on the other deny its knowledge of the word of God, it’s doctrine, or it’s proper ancient form of worship.
Dr.E.: Of course you can.
Nothing and no one is perfect except Christ.***
What does this statement have to do with kosta’s question?
***”For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth” — Romans 9:11***
Why don’t you call out the surrounding verse to illustrate the proper context?
Romans 9 through 11 is very important. Israel’s unbelief and its rejection of Jesus as savior astonished and puzzled Christians. It constituted a serious problem for them in view of God’s specific preparation of Israel for the advent of the Messiah. Paul addresses himself here to the essential question of how the divine plan could be frustrated by Israel’s unbelief. At the same time, he discourages both complacency and anxiety on the part of Gentiles. To those who might boast of their superior advantage over Jews, he warns that their enjoyment of the blessings assigned to Israel can be terminated. To those who might anxiously ask, “How can we be sure that Israel’s fate will not be ours?” he replies that only unbelief can deprive one of salvation.
The principle of divine election does not invite Christians to theoretical inquiry concerning the nonelected nor does this principle mean that God is unfair in his dealings with humanity. The instruction concerning divine election is a part of the gospel and reveals that the gift of faith is the enactment of God’s mercy (Romans 9:16). God raised up Moses to display that mercy, and Pharaoh to display divine severity in punishing those who obstinately oppose their Creator.
The basic biblical principle is: those who will not see or hear shall not see or hear. On the other hand, the same God who thus makes stubborn or hardens the heart can reconstruct it through the work of the holy Spirit.
The apostle responds to the objection that if God rules over faith through the principle of divine election, God cannot then accuse unbelievers of sin (Romans 9:19). For Paul, this objection is in the last analysis a manifestation of human insolence, and his “answer” is less an explanation of God’s ways than the rejection of an argument that places humanity on a level with God. At the same time, Paul shows that God is far less arbitrary than appearances suggest, for God endures with much patience (Romans 9:22) a person like the Pharaoh of the Exodus.
I find myself asking if you really don't know these verses or if you just hope we don't know these verses...
"Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." -- Isaiah 53:1-12"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." -- Habakkuk 2:4
No Dr. E.
The fact remains, as does that post, of the contradictions of man-made Reformation theology.
In one paragraph you said that faith brings salvation. In the next, you said that salvation brings faith.
***And at a time of God’s choosing, we will believe and know our salvation is by Christ’s atonement alone.***
There is a difference between belief and knowledge; the same difference as between the Church and the Gnostics.
God has named us all and freely offers His Grace to us all; we are free as well to accept or reject that Grace.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
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