MPs Challenge 'Doctrinaire' Bishops

The Observer (UK) ^ | 12/30/07 | Anushka Asthana

[marshmallow]

'It seems to me that faith education works all right as long as people are not that serious about their faith. But as soon as there is a more doctrinaire attitude questions have to be asked. It does become worrying when you get a new push from more fundamentalist bishops. This is taxpayers' money after all.'

Catholic schools in England are kept afloat by government money. It seems they have arrived at a fork in the road. Continue to take the money and soft pedal on "doctrinaire" Catholic teaching or continue ( or maybe that should be commence) to teach authentic Catholicism and have their public funding slashed with consequences for the viability of many of the schools.

[glide625]

As commie one-state secularized as England is, I’m surprised they haven’t forced the shut down of not only the schools but the churches as well.

[pgkdan]

This is why I oppose school vouchers. I don’t want my parish school to accept any federal funding at all. I know all the arguements about how vouchers will safeguard against federal involement...I also know that the government can never be trusted when it comes to our freedom.

[NYer]

Let the catholics foot the bill for education ping!

[Gumdrop]

Yikes. Here comes Oliver Cromwell again!

[narses]

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[Unam Sanctam]

'A group of bishops appear to be taking a much firmer line and I think it would be useful to call representatives of the Catholic church in front of the committee to find out what is going on,'

Catholic bishops want Catholic teaching to be taught in Catholic schools -- how dastardly! I guess freedom of religion is no longer a right of Englishmen. Saints Thomas Becket and Thomas More, pray for England.

[Salvation]

**Catholic bishops want Catholic teaching to be taught in Catholic schools**

Prayers for these bishops! And for the Catholic schools too.

[livius]

A tiny question - what’s “Red Nose Day,” pray tell.

Aside from that, taking money from the state is ridiculous. Non-profits in the US have sold their birthrights for this.

[RKBA Democrat]

Government funds always come with strings attached. Always. And those restrictions will most likely manifest themselves in controls over curriculum. That's the primary reason why I vociferously oppose vouchers.

I also wonder how many times our churches have pulled their punches or accepted just a little evil (with the best of intentions, naturally) in order to maintain that coveted tax exempt status.

[Petrosius]

Catholic schoolsThe government in England are kept afloat by government money from people of many faiths.

If the state does not think that it can cooperate with its citizens of various faiths in the funding of education then it is time for the state to get out of the business of education.

[GCC Catholic]

Government funds always come with strings attached. Always. And those restrictions will most likely manifest themselves in controls over curriculum.

My alma mater got into a scuffle about twenty years ago over federal funding and those strings that come attached; ultimately they lost in a court decision. So they jettisoned everything that even hints at federal funding and counted on private donations and trusts.

Now, the college does as it pleases guided by its own Christian principles and not by federal edicts. As a benefit, they don't have to deal with the paperwork and other nonsense associated with ensuring that the government is happy with their compliance.

And the students get a private Christian liberal arts education at the cost of a public state school.

The English Bishops (and Christian schools here in the US and abroad) would do well to follow suit.

[RobbyS]

You are right because the government thinks of vouchers as THEIR money that they are distributing. And they think that the state has plenary authority over education. A proper education is what they say it is. The most neutral form of voucher would be to let families apply their school taxes to the school of their choice rather than receive it from the government. I ,for instance, could give my school tax to be used for the tuition of my grandson. But the educational establishment would die raher than allow this.

[RobbyS]

Freedom of religion has never been more than a concession by the English Crown.

[FloreatIacobus]

As commie one-state secularized as England is, I’m surprised they haven’t forced the shut down of not only the schools but the churches as well.

If a place where religious education is mandatory, where faith schools are paid for out of taxation, where Bishops sit in the legislature &c.&c. is "commie one-state secularized", I hate to think what the U.S. is.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"If a place [England] where religious education is mandatory, where faith schools are paid for out of taxation, where Bishops sit in the legislature &c.&c. is "commie one-state secularized", I hate to think what the U.S. is."

As liberty declines, it is only too typical for the state to subsidize and control the Church. One has only to think of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Assoication, and the Russian Orthodox Church in the Soviet Union, to realize that it is standard for atheistic communist governments to tolerate, and even pay for, religious institutions.

The whole point is to keep a tight rein on the clergy, maintain state censorship over seminaries and other religious institutions, and keep Almighty God firmly subordinated to the Ministry of Religious Activities.

[FloreatIacobus]

As liberty declines, it is only too typical for the state to subsidize and control the Church. One has only to think of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Assoication, and the Russian Orthodox Church in the Soviet Union, to realize that it is standard for atheistic communist governments to tolerate, and even pay for, religious institutions.

The whole point is to keep a tight rein on the clergy, maintain state censorship over seminaries and other religious institutions, and keep Almighty God firmly subordinated to the Ministry of Religious Activities.

Looking at your post, I take it that you have no knowledge of the Church of England.

[Eepsy]

It’s been a while, bit IIRC it’s an annual fundraiser for Children in Need. Very big, lot’s of media involvement, tv specials, local events, etc. Been going on for ages.

[marshmallow]

A tiny question - what’s “Red Nose Day,” pray tell.

A large, nationwide fundraiser for some "needy" cause. So named because everyone was supposed to wear a red, clown nose!

The closest to it we'd have would be Jerry Lewis' Telethon which one can simply ignore by flipping the channel but my memory of Red Nose Day was that it was ubiquitous. Anyone who was anyone was involved in it, including all the usual show biz suspects.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think you’ve misunderstood the intent of my remarks. I didn’t say I was describing distinctive characteristics of the Church of England, but only that it is common for secularist and atheist systems to control (rather than abolish) religious institutions.