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Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)
American Vision ^ | 10/7/2005 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54

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To: fortheDeclaration
Thank you so very much for your agreement!
981 posted on 11/14/2007 7:59:48 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: blue-duncan; Uncle Chip; fortheDeclaration; tabsternager
Is the “binding” a once and for all thing or on a case by case basis?

That’s an interesting question. If binding has to do with the spread of the gospel among the ethnos, and the effect of this unfettered spread is that the elect will come to faith in Christ, then certainly the binding can be viewed on a case by case basis, as far as individuals are concerned.

However, I think what Jesus was getting at was that there is something that gets the ball rolling, so to speak, and that is outlined in Matthew 12. I believe it has to do with the very real personal confrontation between Jesus and the forces of darkness.

One interesting fact seems to be that the sort of intense demonic activity we read about in the NT has all but vanished from the world. (There may still be pockets here and there.) As the gospel goes out, the forces of darkness flee from its influence.

982 posted on 11/14/2007 8:05:02 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: wmfights; fortheDeclaration; Lord_Calvinus; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager
"David was not a Christian, Abraham wasn't, Moses wasn't, Noah wasn't, Abel wasn't, they were Jews and Gentiles."

But they lived by faith.

I think part of the problem is the definition of "Christian". All the patriarchs had a hope in the redeemer of God’s people. That redeemer we know as Jesus Christ.

Regarding Abraham, the father of the faithful, Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56)

In whatever sense Abraham saw the day of Jesus Christ he was a "Christian".

The problem I think is with the tripartite view of humankind; Jew/gentile/ Christian, vs. the more prevalent biblical view of two groups, the righteous and the unrighteous.

Messianics don’t like to be called "Christian" because it is too gentile. Do we now need a fourth category; Jew/gentile/ Christian/Messianic? When are we going to stop dividing the people of God among various unimportant labels?

Are believing Abraham and David my brothers in the faith, or is their faith so radically different from mine that we do not both share the same adoption as sons of God? I think the implications of the latter position on soteriology are enormous.

983 posted on 11/14/2007 8:23:25 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: fortheDeclaration
Christ did defeat Satan and took his captives (saved OT saints) from hell (Abraham's bosom).

If Jesus did this how did Moses and Elijah appear to him at the transfiguration?

984 posted on 11/14/2007 8:40:08 AM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: topcat54
I'm not trying to be evasive or obtuse, but what did Jesus say in Matthew 12 to His disciples?

Nothing that has any bearing on my question to you.

I’m trying to help you figure this out for yourself.

And I'm trying to just get a simple answer to a simple question from the preterist answer man.

By arriving at the correct conclusion you can take ownership and feel a sense of victory over this carnal theology.

LOL --I don't want to own it -- just rent it long enough to get the answer to my question: When was Satan bound and the Millenium begun???.

985 posted on 11/14/2007 8:40:12 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Asking for straight answers

from a crooked, convoluted theology . . .

has to be . . . a lot like asking

for a ball of writhing snake to flick their forked tongues and becoe ivory chopsticks instantly.

Please let me know if you arrange such a feat. I’ll bring popcorn.


986 posted on 11/14/2007 8:50:02 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

Amen, dear Quix. Happy Thanksgiving.


987 posted on 11/14/2007 8:51:43 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: fortheDeclaration; blue-duncan; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager
It meant the generation He was speaking about, which were Jews, not Christians.

Are you saying that no Christians were Jews in the first century?

Why would Christians be concerned about fleeing on the sabbath?

Well for one thing, Jewish Christians in and around Jerusalem would have had to contend with all the Sabbath restrictions placed on the citizens of ancient Israel. For example, the NT speaks of things like "a Sabbath day’s journey" (Acts 1:12). According to rabbinic tradition based on multiple OT texts, this distance was only about 2000 cubits (1000 yards). It would have been very difficult to "flee to the mountains" to escape the armies of Rome given this restriction.

However, to counter your futurist perspective, looking at modern secular Israel today, why would anyone care about whether or not they were traveling on the Sabbath? These OT commands are largely ignored in modern times. Certainly no one in Israel today is limited to traveling only 1000 yards on the Sabbath. Jesus’ words were obviously meant for an ancient time.

988 posted on 11/14/2007 8:52:00 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Uncle Chip; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager
Nothing that has any bearing on my question to you.

And that is your problem. If you won't help yourself, noting I can say will have any positive effect on bringing truth to bear on the issue.

And I'm trying to just get a simple answer to a simple question from the preterist answer man.

And I’m trying to get you the correct answer, which you do not seem interested in.

BTW, Hank Hanegraaff is the official preterist answer man.

LOL --I don't want to own it

Therein lies your problem. You are content with the meager offerings of Scofield and his ilk.

989 posted on 11/14/2007 8:56:40 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; fortheDeclaration; tabsternager
“That’s an interesting question.”

It seems that “binding” in Matthew 12 has more to do with the faith (growing/maturing) of the saint than the actual binding of Satan since he is already under authority and the word of God will accomplish whatever He desires. God wants the saints to wield it offensively with confidence, born of exercise and obedience, not diffidently.

The promise:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, [even] unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

The Exercise and Discipline:

Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The Warfare:

2Th 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:

Mar 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1Pe 5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

990 posted on 11/14/2007 9:02:29 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Quix

You’re right, Quix — They mock dispensationalists for their futurist interpretations but when asked for specifics about their preterism, they have none. They are clouds without rain —


991 posted on 11/14/2007 9:05:23 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; tabsternager; Lee N. Field; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy
I think part of the problem is the definition of "Christian". All the patriarchs had a hope in the redeemer of God's people. That redeemer we know as Jesus Christ. Regarding Abraham, the father of the faithful, Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56)

In whatever sense Abraham saw the day of Jesus Christ he was a "Christian".

The problem I think is with the tripartite view of humankind; Jew/gentile/ Christian, vs. the more prevalent biblical view of two groups, the righteous and the unrighteous...

When are we going to stop dividing the people of God among various unimportant labels?

Are believing Abraham and David my brothers in the faith, or is their faith so radically different from mine that we do not both share the same adoption as sons of God? I think the implications of the latter position on soteriology are enormous.

AMEN! "All one in Christ Jesus."

This understanding makes complete sense to me and ratifies the ultimate truth of Colossians 1...

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Col. 1:16-17

Now, if Colossians 1:16-17 is true, then every particle of history points the way to Jesus Christ and all righteousness resides by God's grace through faith in Him alone.
992 posted on 11/14/2007 9:14:36 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: topcat54

Yes, there certainly are and we need to be careful, but you can’t put down everyone who disagrees with your way of thinking and I think Hank does that sometimes.


993 posted on 11/14/2007 9:15:18 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: JohnnyM

“Just because we disagree on eschatology does not mean we should resort to name calling.”

Well said. And you’re right, of course.


994 posted on 11/14/2007 9:19:43 AM PST by tabsternager
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To: Marysecretary

Thanks.

Likewise.

7 X’s back at you.

LUB,
BLPH,


995 posted on 11/14/2007 9:27:23 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: topcat54
You are content with the meager offerings of Scofield and his ilk.

I knew that you wouldn't put forth your answer to the question -- but I had to give you a chance anyway. Atleast Scofield was confident enough in his beliefs to provide specifics and answer questions --

996 posted on 11/14/2007 9:28:09 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Iscool; Alamo-Girl; fortheDeclaration; wmfights
Certainly no one in Israel today is limited to traveling only 1000 yards on the Sabbath. Jesus’ words were obviously meant for an ancient time.

ANOTHER
BRAZEN
FALSEHOOD.

Though perhaps the Replacementarians are travel challenged.

Perhaps they have not been to Jerusalem, as I have.

Perhaps they have not been to the Orthodox quarter of Jerusalem.

Perhaps the blindness
Of Replacementariansism
should be blamed on
an
inadequate
travel
budget!

I guess my perspective would be . . . constrained, mangled, twisted, thoroughly out of touch with current, historical and Biblical realities if I spent all my time tied up in twisted gordian knots; packed like a sardine in a tiny little black box without windows . . .

Is there no end of the Replacementarian's silly assumptions so brazenly out of touch with commonly shared tangible time/space realities so familiar to the rest of us? A post to be up shortly is yet another shocking example of the same phenomena.

A brazen statement is made that is THOROUGHLY FALSE. JUST OBJECTIVELY INACCURATE, WRONG, NOT TRUE, FALSE, . . . and so much so a grade schooler would know it in a flash. Yet the Replacementarians seem to think we should think of their offerings of such BRAZEN FALSEHOODS as

evidence

FOR

their perspective!???

That's kind of like O.J. Simpson in the midst of the trial pulling a bloody glove out of his pocket with his blood on it mixed with DNA from his victims and offering it as evidence and insisting it should help prove his INNOCENCE!!!

Mind boggling.

997 posted on 11/14/2007 9:37:56 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Uncle Chip; wmfights; blue-duncan; Lord_Calvinus; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager
I knew that you wouldn't put forth your answer to the question

If you say that I'm incapable of answering the question, you are quite wrong. All I have asked is that you demonstrate even a rudimentary ability to exegete the Bible for yourself. You could do that by explaining what Jesus was saying in Matthew 12:25-29. You could then compare that with what I would say (which I’m happy to do). You choose not to do that. There is no sense in me trying to explain a position if you lack the biblical skills to appreciate what I’m saying, which is all you have consistently demonstrated in our conversation.

998 posted on 11/14/2007 9:40:15 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: fortheDeclaration; topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Lord_Calvinus
Isa 11:1-12, “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

You think this is future? then Jesus never came in the flesh and if you all deny this are you denying that Jesus came in the flesh? Is all prophecy re Jesus still future?

999 posted on 11/14/2007 9:43:18 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: topcat54
POST #982
One interesting fact seems to be that the sort of intense demonic activity we read about in the NT has all but vanished from the world.

OBVIOUSLY,
The
Replacementarian
Perspective
HAS BECOME
The
THE
REALITY
DENYING
BLINDERS
PERSPECTIVE!

I guess Replacementarians must live their whole lives in their dark, tiny, pretend tidy, little boxes.

IMAGINE
NO TRAVEL
To
Mexico
Central AMERICA
SOUTH AMERICA
HATI
JAMACA
INDIA
NEPAL
EAST ASIA
ASIA
JAPAN
AFRICA
WASHINGTON, DC
NEW ORLEANS
KEY WEST
HOLLYWEED
NEW JERSEY
. . .

Ask any minister routinely ministering in deliverance ministry . . . Things have worsened. Some say they have worsened seriously since we went into iraq—something about hoards of stuff being loosed from the pit at that time from that region.

I certainly know from my own life and observations in foreign lands as well as in the usa that the demonized individuals have !not! Become fewer nor mildly demonized.

IF ANYTHING
DEMONIZED
CASES
HAVE
SKYROCKETED!
WHO
DO
REPLACEMENTARIANS
THINK
DRIVES
FOLKS
TO
RAPE
BABIES
????

It is still incredulous to me that even secular folks watching the news the last 10 years alone would think that demonization had decreased! Shocking. My keys really are currently stuck on all caps. And i don’t have time to use replace case on every paragraph.

1,000 posted on 11/14/2007 9:45:47 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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