Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
It may just be semantics (we do a lot of that here), but why wouldn't the Jews and Gentiles who realize that Jesus is the Christ and believe in him be Christians. Also, during the 1,000 yr reign not everyone is a believer, but I'm assuming some become believers, wouldn't they also be Christians.
No, the term Christian is a very specific term for a believer at a particular time.
A Christian is someone is part of Christ's body and His Bride.
No other people, anytime in the Bible are said to be individually the Temple of God and have the Holy Spirit permentally indweling them.
No other group of people were individually each considered priests.
No other group of people cease being considered either a Gentile or Jew once saved except during the church age dispensation.
After the Rapture and the close of this Dispensation, a saved person will go back to the way saved people were before the Church age began, no indwelling Holy Spirit, a return to being either a saved Jew or Gentile, but not a 'Christian'.
David was not a Christian, Abraham wasn't, Moses wasn't, Noah wasn't, Abel wasn't, they were Jews and Gentiles.
The failure to understand this comes from confusing the family of God with the Church of God.
So then just exactly when did this real event occur????
Lk 21 refers to the events of 70 AD, not to the events described in Daniel which the Lord made reference to in Matthew.
Funny how He didn't make the same reference in Luke.
I take it then that you do not have a real answer.
All things are restored in the Millennial reign regarding the Creation.
Are you claiming that modern, secular, agnostic, Christ-denying Israel is what is spoken of in the Bible? That, my friend, is a fantasy.
LOL!
Ofcourse it is secular, agnostic, Christ rejecting-now.
There is a strong religious element that has plans to rebuild the Temple.
The Temple will get rebuilt by making a deal with the anti-Christ and the sacrifices will begin again.
Then, that same anti-Christ will betray them and cause an idol to be put in the Temple and he himself will sit in it proclaiming himself to be God (2Thess.2).
They will continue to reject Christ until they see Him returning to save them (Zech 13)
You take it wrong, as usual. The answer is in the word: All things will be restored on Earth at the beginning of the physical millenial reign. Man's sinful nature will remain, but without the accuser, who will be bound, to focus it, that nature will not be dominant on Earth as it is presently. When Satan is loosed, sin will again rise up to wreak havoc as it now does.
"where did those that are in rebellion at the end of the 1,000 yr reign come from?"
They are on Earth all along. The rebellion is directed by Satan who is loosed at that time.
That doesn't quite seem to square with 1 Cor. 15 where we read: 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. Note that it does not say "… afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. Then comes the millennium". It say "then comes the end". It also does not say "then comes seven years of tribulation followed the real second coming followed by the millennium then comes the end". From this text we see clearly that "the end" involves the final conquest of all Christ’s enemies including death (and by implication sin also). There is no room in this passage for a "thousand years" of spiritual resurrected folk living among natural, sinful non-resurrected folk. "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor. 15:50)
Vs 25 says that Christ must reign till all of his enemies are put under his feet.
That reign happens during the Millennial reign (see Ps.2)
Then, the last enemy destroyed is death, which happens at the Great White Throne Judgement (Rev.20)
Now, as for 'flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of God' you know that the Kingdom of God and Heaven are two different Kingdoms!
The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom which flesh and blood cannot inherit (Rom.14:17).
The Kingdom of Heaven is a literal, physical kingdom, which is the Kingdom the Apostles were looking for.
In the Millennial reign the Kingdoms come together and both coexist as one, but remain distinct from each other.
In the eternal state, that will also be true, but the difference is that there is no more death, no more rebellion, no more sin.
What does Jesus teach in Matthew 12:25-29?
You tell me, and then answer the first question.
“All things will be restored on Earth at the beginning of the physical millenial reign.
Psalm 2:6-12, “Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Isa 11:1-12, “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”
But the amill. and postmill. will tell us what they really mean is....
There is also a strong agnostic element that has not interest in rebuilding the temple. There are political pressures (just like the political pressures that brought the state into being) that are totally opposed to any such nonsense.
I hear lots of arguments from the newspaper but not very much from the Bible.
They will continue to reject Christ until they see Him returning to save them (Zech 13)
Actually it does not say that at all. The message of the OT was that Israel would be restored to the land only out of repentance. They must first acknowledge Christ, and be regrafted into the covenant people, for any of the blessing to accrue to their account.
36 "When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin), and You become angry with them and deliver them to the enemy, and they take them captive to a land far or near; 37 yet when they come to themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captivity, saying, 'We have sinned, we have done wrong, and have committed wickedness'; 38 and when they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, where they have been carried captive, and pray toward their land which You gave to their fathers, the city which You have chosen, and toward the temple which I have built for Your name: 39 then hear from heaven Your dwelling place their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive Your people who have sinned against You. (2 Chron 6)The blessing of restoration always follows repentance.
Modern Israel in her unbelief cannot be the fulfillment of any biblical prophecy.
“Well, first of all, the text of Josephus says that “upon burning of the holy house itself” they brought the ensigns “to” the temple, not “into” as your misquote has it here. That’s a big difference.”
You can’t be serious.
That is understandable when you do not read them in the light of the rest of the Bible, esp. the NT. The unbelieving Jews think the same thing. They are free to leave Jesus out of the equation just as you are doing.
I'm giving you an opportunity to actually exegete a passage of Scripture to demonstrate that you have some depth of understanding.
It’s your big chance. Show us what your emperor is really wearing.
That is understandable when you do not read them in the light of the rest of the Bible, esp. the NT. The unbelieving Jews think the same thing. They are free to leave Jesus out of the equation just as you are doing.
Nothing in the New Testament cancels out those verses.
In fact, the last question that the Apostles asked Christ before He ascended was when was the kingdom of Israel going to be restored?
Did Christ tell them that it was not going to happen-no, only that they were not to know the time of its happening.
Just how much of the Bible do you guys throw out?
You can't be serious.
Here it is from "earlyjewishwritings.com":
"1 AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple (24) and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator (25) with the greatest acclamations of joy."
It says "to" not "into" -- different words different meanings.
Where did you get that text quote from? some preterist propaganda website.
Yes, that’s what’s been going on for the last 2000 year since He ascended into heaven to the throne of David from which He has been reigning.
That reign happens during the Millennial reign (see Ps.2)
Wrong. Read the NT. It says that He is reigning (cf, Eph. 1:10 and Heb. 8:1). Paul is quoting from Psalms as more proof that Jesus is reigning as the promised Messiah of Palm 2. Jesus Himself said that "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth" right now. Not in some futurist fantasy millennium.
Then, the last enemy destroyed is death, which happens at the Great White Throne Judgement (Rev.20)
Correct. That happens at "the end" just after our resurrection. "The end" means "the end", not the start of yet another thousand years.
Now, as for 'flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of God' you know that the Kingdom of God and Heaven are two different Kingdoms!
Dispensational baloney.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matt. 19)The phrases are used interchangeably in the Bible, as demonstrated in this one passage. Most thinking dispensationalists repudiate this Scofieldian nonsense.
The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom which flesh and blood cannot inherit (Rom.14:17).
The Kingdom of Heaven is a literal, physical kingdom, which is the Kingdom the Apostles were looking for.
More baloney of the same noxious sort.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. (If you are a futurist insert 1007 years right here) 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor. 15)
I'm giving you an opportunity to redeem yourself from your Caiaphas fiasco by telling us just when Satan was bound and the Millenium began as you claim.
It’s "your big second chance".
Where does He tell them that it will happen? All you have is an argument from silence, and not a very good one.
Besides, you cannot prove that present secular Israel is the exact fulfillment of any of your futurist fantasies. It may disappear tomorrow in a puff of nuclear smoke.
Just how much of the Bible do you guys throw out?
That's funny. Just think of it as we don’t happen read it with Mr. Scofield’s glasses.
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