Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
Replacement theology has become dispensationalism's latest prophetic boogeyman. If you want to end a debate over eschatology, just charge your opponent with holding to replacement theology. What is “replacement theology,” sometimes called “supersessionism,” and why do dispensationalists accuse non-dispensationalists of holding it? Here’s a typical dispensational definition:
Replacement Theology: a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God’s Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism (whether Christianity or Islam).1
“Replacement theology” is dispensationalism’s trump card in any debate over eschatology because it implies anti-semitism. Hal Lindsey attempted to use this card in his poorly researched and argued The Road to Holocaust.2 He wove an innovative tale implying that anyone who is not a dispensationalist carries the seeds of anti-semitism within his or her prophetic system. This would mean that every Christian prior to 1830 would have been theologically anti-semitic although not personally anti-semtic.
As Peter Leithart and I point out in The Legacy of Hatred Continues,3 it’s dispensationalists who hold to a form of replacement theology since they believe that Israel does not have any prophetic significance this side of the rapture! Prior to the rapture, in terms of dispensational logic, the Church has replaced Israel. This is unquestionably true since God’s prophetic plan for Israel has been postponed until the prophetic time clock starts ticking again at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week which starts only after the Church is taken to heaven in the so-called rapture. Until then, God is dealing redemptively with the Church. Am I making this up? Consider the following by dispensationalist E. Schuyler English:
An intercalary4 period of history, after Christ’s death and resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, has intervened. This is the present age, the Church age. . . . During this time God has not been dealing with Israel nationally, for they have been blinded concerning God’s mercy in Christ. . . . However, God will again deal with Israel as a nation. This will be in Daniel’s seventieth week, a seven-year period yet to come.5
According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”6
Dispensationalists claim that their particular brand of eschatology is the only prophetic system that gives Israel her proper place in redemptive history. This is an odd thing to argue since two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”7 The book’s title doesn’t seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die! John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past. . . . [T]he people of Israel . . . are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”8 Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”9
During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a “replacement theology viewpoint” believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism’s interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42–46; 22:1–14; 24:15–22). Those who believed Jesus’ words of warning were delivered “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), “wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:10–13).
Before critics of replacement theology throw stones, they need to take a look at their own prophetic system and see its many lapses in theology and logic.
Read Part Two of this article...
2. Hal Lindsey, The Road to Holocaust (New York: Bantam Books, 1989). The address for Bantam Books is 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York.
3. Gary DeMar and Peter J. Leithart, The Legacy of Hatred Continues: A Response to Hal Lindsey’s The Road to Holocaust (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 1989).
4. Inserted into the calendar.
5. E. Schuyler English, A Companion to the New Scofield Reference Bible (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 135.
6. Thomas Ice, “The Israel of God,” The Thomas Ice Collection: www.raptureready.com/featured/TheIsraelOfGod.html#_edn3
7. Charles C. Ryrie, The Best is Yet to Come (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 86.
8. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1962), 107, 113. Emphasis added.
9. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, “The Little Apocalypse of Zechariah,” The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack, eds. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2003), 262.
True, but also keep in mind Jesus’ words to the disciples after one of their very successful missionary journeys. "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." (Luke 10:18)
There were definite acts surrounding the life of Christ that "nailed it" as far as Satan was concerned.
Pat yourself all over the head and back, you have no idea where we have traveled to, because if we boast, we are to boast in the Lord. Jesus walked everywhere and probably never left a 100 mile square as an adult. Besides the kingdom is within.
If you want to be taken seriously you need to show us your ability to interpret the Bible, rather than simply throwing out quaint sayings and notions from the dispensational fathers.
Right now you are just coming off as a less wordy and less colorful version of Rapmaster Q. You either need some substance or change your fonts .
But sometimes a pat answer is not sufficient because it is incorrect. Sometimes ambiguity itself is preferrable to the wrong answer because within the ambiguity is the answer, whereas it's nowhere near the wrong answer.
A map is not equal to the territory.
That's how I see dispensationalism -- a collection of often wrong answers.
Einstein said we should strive to make things as simple as possible, but not simpler. To believe that the promises of Christ are to national Israel is nuttiness. Christ appeared and all men are commanded to believe in Him today.
From the article that began this thread...
John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: "Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past...[T]he people of Israel...are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine." As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed." During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a "replacement theology viewpoint" (non-dispensationalists) believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism's interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42;46; 22:1;14; 24:15;22). Those who believed Jesus' words of warning were delivered "from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), "wrath has come upon them to the utmost" (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1;11; 2 Pet. 3:10;13)(Dispensationalists believe) two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book 'The Best is Yet to Come' that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo "the worst bloodbath in Jewish history." The book's title doesn't seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die!
These answers seem both clear and simple to me, and according to the word of God.
Jesus didn't make any mistakes...He knows what He is talking about...It's not His fault that you don't...
Jesus wrote His words that you might believe...
You don't get the verse as well as many, many others since you don't believe Jesus...
If folks take the scriptures literally where they can be taken literaly (whether they make sense to their 21st century mind, or not), people will have no choice but to be Pre-Millenial...
When Jesus was speaking to those Jews, there was no Gentile church...There was no plan for a Gentile church...
The Jews were looking for a Jewish Messiah and He showed up...The plan was to fulfill Daniel's 70th week, go on thru the Tribulation and Jesus Christ would sit on the Throne of David, right there in Jerusalem for a Millenium, a thousand years, as the Jewish Messiah...
The verse you are looking at has a 'dual' application, as do hundreds of verses in the scipture...Had the Jews accepted Jesus, that generation would have been the one to see Jesus in His Glory...
They did not accept Jesus (and He knew they wouldn't) so the verse can and does apply to a future generation beyond the then unknown Church Age, the Dispensation of the Church...
The more you 'make the word of God of none effect', the more you will miss and mis-understand...Or as one fella puts it, the more you mess with that BOOK, the more God will mess with yur mind...
The Kingdom of Heaven, the one you think you are now in, has been postponed...You are not reigning (ruling) with Jesus Christ because He is not reigning, right now...
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
When Jesus left us, He sent the Holy Spirit to help us and guide us on thru the 'Spiritual' Church age...Nothing physical...It's ALL Spiritual...The Kingdom offered NOW is the Kingdom of God, the Spiritual Kingdom...
Luk 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
If Jesus reigns NOW, it is within you...He is NOT ruling the nations with an iron hand...
And this is why Jesus did NOT show up in 70 AD...His physical Kingdom had not been established and His Spiritual Kingdom was already at work, in the believer...
And this is the foolishness in believing that today's headlines define history.
Regarding Iraq, if we read beyond the headlines, we will see that the "Surge" in Iraq has "worked" beyond all expectations. The Islamic nations are being wrestled to the ground. If God has chosen to do this by an American army, then God be praised.
The sky is always falling to some people, even before Spacelab went up. And came down
That was a rather long-winded way to say that you don’t know what Jesus meant when He spoke of "the things which must shortly come to pass".
If folks take the scriptures literally where they can be taken literaly
Like with the word "shortly"? Simple word, simple meaning. Hard to not take "literally".
The verse you are looking at has a 'dual' application,
That theory requires more proof than your mere assertion.
If Jesus reigns NOW, it is within you...He is NOT ruling the nations with an iron hand...
Sounds like a form of dualistic gnosticism.
Literally speaking, Jesus does not have an "iron hand", so the metaphor must be interpreted in the light of the rest of the rest of Bible. In Matthew 28, Jesus said quite plainly "all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth". It is certainly reasonable to interpret the "iron hand" metaphor in light of the plain didactic teaching in Matthew 28. Unless your theology forces you to a different conclusion.
If you want to be taken seriously
AHHHHHHHH . . . . IF one wants to be taken seriously . . .
by the REPLACEMENTARIANS . . .
Please stop equating me and others here who are discussing theology, with rape and do it immediately, thanks
“I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” (Luke 10:18)”
I understand this to be part of the timeless war in the heavenlies that is set out in Ezekiel 28 (and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee) and Isaiah 14 (How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!); and its effects felt in Genesis 1:2 (And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.) Genesis 3:13 (And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat) and Revelation 12:12 (Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.)
Of course, like not becoming a teacher and retiring early like my younger brothers, I could be wrong again, however, the good part is I’m no different than the disciples “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power”.
I don’t accept your
PREMISE
AT ALL
ZIP—0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
Twisting Scripture, reality, history and definitions
all out of recognizable whack is horrid enough—the most horrid.
But it’s also horrid to twist what I say all out of whack.
If you wish to rail at something—try something factual.
It might be a refreshing change.
Fine, we’ll let the moderator decide
That means only one thing -- the world is pretty much at peace.
That means only one thing -- the world is pretty much at peace.
NOT AT ALL.
It is MORE plausible, to me, that it is FURTHER, ADDITIONAL evidence that the puppet masters are gearing up; preparing the populace for the war in space with ET that that space/missle pionere Werner von Braun warned Dr Carol Rosin about in 1974 when he warned her that:
the puppet masters had scheduled
1. a war on terror [remember this was 1974] then
2. a war with Iraq [remember this was 1974] then
3. a war with ET in space.
Basically, yo ain't seen 'nuthin' yet.
The scoffing at the above should be maximum if I know the Replacementarians, at all. But, I wonder, will any of them DARE TO ANSWER ME THIS . . .
WHAT WILL BE YOUR RESPONSE TO THE PERSON IN THE MIRROR IF/WHEN IT COMES TRUE?
only until the Space aliens attack lol, or the holograms do
Because Hank lost a lawsuit he had filed against someone else for slandering him? Big deal - slander lawsuits are almost impossible to win.
NO! NOT AT ALL.
I tend to enjoy different perspectives amongst believers.
One should watch one's ASSUMPTIONS, PRESUMPTIONS, GUESSES about what I'm IMPLYING. I can play implications like a piano at times. But most of the time I try to say precisely what I mean, believe, feel.
i DO believe, feel that SOME ASPECTS of the REPLACEMENTARIANISM presented hereon are hideous, destructive, probably eternally destructive to some souls etc. etc. etc. That's MY PERSPECTIVE and I feel somewhat strongly about it in my spirit as well as in my mind. That's MY reality.
I do happen to believe that my reality concurs much more with Biblical reality and reality in general than the long list of brazen falsehoods on the other side do. But that, too, is MY PERSPECTIVE.
Plus, disagreeing on eschatology does not even equate to saying Jesus was a homosexual on the incredulity scale.
IN GENERAL.
However, as presented hereon, SOME ASPECTS OF REPLACEMENTARIANISM DO EQUATE,
TO ME
to such outrageousnesses.
There is a quote I heard that sums up what I believe when discussing issues such as these: "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity"
AGREED.
However, though it is of NO eternal consequence . . . for the record . . . my PERSPECTIVE, REALITY IS that I've extended repeatedly far more charity toward the other side than I've ever received in total.
eschatology is a non-essential.
Mostly, I agree. But in these END TIMES--NOT ENTIRELY. THERE ARE REAL LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES INVOLVED.
There are Replacementarians reading my words who will UNNECESSARILY suffer serious EXTRA loss, pain, hurt because they stubbornly refused to believe Scripture; the daily news . . .
Thankfully, at that point, their blood will be on their own hands. I will have done my best.
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