Posted on 08/13/2007 4:37:16 PM PDT by NYer
WAPPINGERS FALLS, N.Y. (CNS) -- In late July, carloads of curious Catholics caravanned north from their church to a mosque in the next county.
Three dozen Catholics who regularly attend Mass at the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement's Graymoor Spiritual Life Center in Garrison accepted a Muslim visitor's invitation to attend services at Masjid Al-Noor, his mosque in Wappingers Falls.
Entering the two-story white frame building, the visitors placed their shoes alongside their host's on wire racks lining one wall of the foyer.
The women, already modestly covered from chin to ankle, pulled on scarves to cover their hair. The men were directed through double doors to a large simple, rug-covered room on the first floor and the women were invited upstairs to a balcony overlooking the same prayer room.
The walls of the prayer room were sparsely decorated with metal plaques proclaiming God's greatness in Arabic, a large clock and several bookshelves with various editions of the Quran and devotional books. The front of the room had a small, raised carpeted platform for the imam, the religious scholar who led the service.
People greeted one another quietly and lined up, shoulder to shoulder, in rows that stretched across the room. Everyone faced east, the direction of Mecca, Saudi Arabia, Islam's holy city. Folding chairs in the back of the two prayer areas were used by people who had difficulty sitting and kneeling on the floor, or accomplishing the deep bows that punctuated the prayers.
Muslims are required to pray five times a day and men are obliged to attend a communal service on Fridays. Women are not required to interrupt their routines to go to the mosque for Friday prayer. Three-quarters of the more than 200 people who attended one recent Friday service at Masjid Al-Noor were men.
The 45-minute service was conducted in spoken and intoned Arabic, with three portions in English: a short reflection on the reading from the Quran, intercessory prayers and communal announcements.
At one Friday service, Imam Mohammed Asil Khan chose to speak on a Scripture passage, or "sura," that described the "Miracles of Jesus and the Miracles of Mohammed." He later explained that Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet, but not divine.
The Catholic visitors told Catholic News Service they were grateful for the opportunity to attend the services and speak with members of the congregation.
"Our hosts were very welcoming and it was insightful to have casual conversation about being Muslim and learning about the diversity within their own community," said Ruth Ann McAndrews.
She was particularly interested in the discussion of the "challenge of instilling each religion's traditions and faith in the youth through Sunday school and after-school programs."
"The thing that struck me," said Dan Donnelly, "was the commonality that pervades. We have significant doctrinal differences. They don't believe in the Trinity or in the divinity of Jesus, but we have a common father who created us and we should all love one another."
He was also intrigued by the lack of a hierarchy and came to a better understanding of the role of the imam.
"I thought of the imams as the priesthood," he said, "but I learned that they are religious scholars who are chosen by the community to be teachers. If an imam is not available, the people can choose another person to lead the service."
Joyce Evans said, "I left there knowing for certain that our faiths could make us closer to each other. Praying with the Muslims can't take anything away from Catholicism. In fact, it enhances my Catholicism to honor them and work with them."
She continued, "You can read about Islam in a book, but to see the fervor of their devotion really touched me and I came away being a better Catholic."
Most of the worshippers at Masjid Al-Noor are Sunni Muslims, although Shiites are welcome and constitute a small percentage of the congregation, according to Imam Khan. There is no official membership roll, he said, so it is hard to estimate the size of the congregation.
The worship community represents 26 different countries and includes a small number of converts. Imam Khan is a Pakistani who holds master's degrees in Arabic and Islamic studies. He has a full-time association with the mosque.
Atonement Father James J. Gardiner, director of the Graymoor Spiritual Life Center, organized the visits, which came out of a December 2006 event at the center.
"At our Advent vespers, we invited people from different traditions to speak. We had Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Christian Missionary Alliance and Muslim speakers," he said. "At the time, Umar H. Ahmad was the president of the Mid-Hudson Islamic Association, which worships at Masjid Al-Noor.
"Dr. Ahmad spoke 'In Praise of Mary' and at the end of his talk he invited the participants to visit his mosque, attend services and enjoy fellowship with the imam and other members of the congregation," the priest said. So two visits were scheduled in July.
Imam Khan expressed interest in making a reciprocal visit to Graymoor. "Quran tells us that how you deal with your neighbors is very important," he said.
It is the customary practice here at Free Republic to provide sources.
Name your sources. Prove that Catholics worship Fatima. Provide links to such sources.
If you cannot provide this, then please apologize to the Catholics and the Religion Moderator for the falsehoods you have posted.
Franciscan Friars of the Atonement? I’m not familiar with this religious order. At first I thought of Fr. Benedict Groschel, but then I remembered he is with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, a very pious and traditional group of friars.
It’s hard to keep these religious orders separate in my mind. Are the FF of the Atonement a liberal group?
Wa Wa. This chatroom stuff has you all wound up.
The Christians in China wish all they had to worry about
is a chatroom. lol.
Mary isn't perpetually a virgin. Please apologize to all of us for this falsehood.
Heck, my ancestry comes from the two most Catholic countries around - the Philippines and Poland, and NO ONE I know of in my family, nor in any parish I attend, has ever invoked Fatima, the daughter of the false prophet Mohammed. I guess you just believe whatever you want.
Yes, and "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is just a book.
Persecution starts as an idea, a lie that is allowed to stand.
We have provided our sources that support the virginity of Mary. If you like, we’ll provide them again.
Where are your sources?
I doubt that even one out of a hundred Catholics even knows that Mohammed had a daughter named Fatima.
My own informal poll shows that precisely one Catholic other than myself was aware of this little factoid - my elder son. In that he’s rather hostile toward all things Mohammedan (he’s pushing for a renewed Crusade against the monist heretics), I kinda doubt that he’s hiding up in his room worshipping Fatima. LOL.
sitetest
Persecution starts as an idea, a lie that is allowed to stand.
You've been accused of worshipping a female, big whoop. In the protocols Jews are accused of murdering chilren. You're going to equate the two? Get over yourself. You should be ashamed.
If the teaching on the perpetual virginity of Mary contradicts Scripture, the teaching must be wrong and I will apologize. However, Scripture supports it.
In the case of Mary’s perpetual virginity, Matthew 13:55 uses the Greek word for "brethren" (adelphoi) and its feminine counterpart (adelphe). If the Greek words used in this passage connote only siblings, then the Catholic dogma of Mary’s perpetual virginity is false.
However, the word adelphoi has a much broader meaning. It may refer to male relatives that one is not a descendant of and that are not descendant from one (such as a blood brother, step-brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, etc.) or non-relatives such as neighbors, fellow workers, co-religionists, and friends.
Because of this broad usage, we can be sure that the 120 "brothers" in Acts 1:15 did not have the same mother. Neither did Lot and his uncle Abraham, who were called "brothers" (Gen. 11:26-28, 29:15).
The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a "brother." Linguistically, this was far easier than calling the person the son of a mother’s sister. Since the New Testament was written in a dialect of Greek that was heavily influenced by the Semitic culture, many of the Hebrew idioms (like "brother" having multiple meanings) intrude into the Greek text. So, the fact that Jesus had adelphoi does not mean that Mary had other children.
The issue of whether the Mary apparitions are really Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed (or not) came up several months ago, on this thread. It doesn't prove the allegation, but it does prove that nmh isn't making it up. I documented the allegation's being quoted in a Zenit news article here, here and here.
I'm hurt that no one pinged me, nor Gamecock (author of that older thread) to this conversation :(
Sorry I don't accept your sources. Do you know of any virgins living that have bore children? I didn't think so.
You telling Campion to get over his self?? LOL!!
I'll repeat it if you like?
So you’re going to duped by wacko Iranian TV claims???
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
At your links (which link to plethora of more links), I see where it clearly states says, “Iranian TV: Our Lady of Fatima is Really Fatima, Daughter of the Prophet Mohammed.”
However, Iranian TV is hardly considered a reliable part of the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Thus, it hardly substantiates the claim that CATHOLICS worship Fatima. Rather, it substantiates the claim that SOME MUSLIMS believe that Mary at Fatima was actually Fatima at Fatima.
That doesn’t really touch on Catholic belief or teaching at all.
There is this little piece from one of your links:
“To quote a Catholic news organization, ‘Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed.’”
However, I couldn’t find the “Catholic news organization,” nor could I find the overall context of the alleged quote. Perhaps the “Catholic news organization” was reporting the Muslim assertion that Mary at Fatima was really Fatima at Fatima.
Again, there is a difference between what Catholics believe and what others may believe about the same phenomenon. If some Muslims believe that Mary at Fatima was actually Fatima at Fatima, well, we won’t chop their heads off for so asserting.
But Catholics don’t believe that, and thus, don’t worship Fatima (nor do we worship Mary, nor do we venerate Fatima), the claims of (the non-magisterial, from the Catholic perspective) Iranian TV notwithstanding.
It’s just an ugly, anti-Catholic, bigoted falsehood.
sitetest
I also don’t know of any other manifestations where God has become man, was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day He was resurrected and showed Himself to the Apostles. He ascended to Heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty, from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead. It is sad that you don’t accept my sources. By the way, they aren’t my sources. They are from the institute that Jesus Christ set up. I don’t suppose that you’d accept that either.
It takes quite an ambitious self-made Pope to start judging the Mysteries of God Almighty by one’s own earthly standards. My congratulations. Do you plan on conducting your own resurrection?
The claim that Catholics worship Mohammad's daughter, Fatima has been debunked and should not be repeated again on this forum. It would be considered as inflammatory as the false Jesuit Oath which is also not allowed here.
To paraphrase the old saying, the Religion Moderator has spoken, the matter is closed. ;-)
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