[MarkBsnr]

Let us examine this passage more closely:

:::his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness:::

Servant of one versus the other. No quantitative difference in the quality of the service. No support there.

:::ye were the servants of sin:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::ye became the servants of righteousness:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness:::

Servant of one versus the other. No quantitative difference in the quality of the service. No support there.

:::ye were the servants of sin:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God:::

Servants, not slaves.

Harley, the verses quoted lend no support to the supposition that man has no free will before the Holy Spirit invades him, since the words and the phrasing is EXACTLY the same for servant to God versus servant to sin.

They however, indicate that the ability of man to choose (servant = free will, slave = forced) is equal in either choosing evil or God. I’m afraid that these verses support the Catholic position on free will and repudiate the Reformed position.

I don’t see this as accidental, friend. I think that you’re testing the waters for current, temperature etc. :)

[HarleyD]

Servants, not slaves.

The Greek word used here (in various tenses) is doulos and means a slave: - bond-servant (11), bond-servants (12), bondslave (3), bondslaves (8), both men and women (8), servants (1), slave (58), slave’s (1), slaves . It means far more than simply a paid servant. It means being in bondage to someone or something. Hence Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther.

Harley, the verses quoted lend no support to the supposition that man has no free will before the Holy Spirit invades him,

Of course they do. The whole book of Romans is about the inability of man to come to God. This is one of the sections that you asked for. You try to make this to be simply a hired servant type of thing. That isn't what the Greek states at all.

I’m afraid that these verses support the Catholic position on free will and repudiate the Reformed position. I don’t see this as accidental, friend. I think that you’re testing the waters for current, temperature etc. :)

You don't know me very well then. I don't test the waters, certainly not with the Reformed position. There are far easier things to support.

All things come from God, including our faith. As St. Cyprian stated, "There is not anything you have that has not been given to you." including your faith. This is what most people wish to deny these days thinking they can ascend to the heavens by their choice. That didn't work long ago and it still doesn't work.

[Kolokotronis]

I don't think you're going to get too far with your argument based on slave/servant, M. The relevant word here is "δούλους". It is sometimes translated as servant because in English that's probably the closest single word but in fact a "δούλους" was very much a slave, a house slave, a member of the master's household to be sure, but a slave nevertheless.