[HarleyD]

Servants, not slaves.

The Greek word used here (in various tenses) is doulos and means a slave: - bond-servant (11), bond-servants (12), bondslave (3), bondslaves (8), both men and women (8), servants (1), slave (58), slave’s (1), slaves . It means far more than simply a paid servant. It means being in bondage to someone or something. Hence Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther.

Harley, the verses quoted lend no support to the supposition that man has no free will before the Holy Spirit invades him,

Of course they do. The whole book of Romans is about the inability of man to come to God. This is one of the sections that you asked for. You try to make this to be simply a hired servant type of thing. That isn't what the Greek states at all.

I’m afraid that these verses support the Catholic position on free will and repudiate the Reformed position. I don’t see this as accidental, friend. I think that you’re testing the waters for current, temperature etc. :)

You don't know me very well then. I don't test the waters, certainly not with the Reformed position. There are far easier things to support.

All things come from God, including our faith. As St. Cyprian stated, "There is not anything you have that has not been given to you." including your faith. This is what most people wish to deny these days thinking they can ascend to the heavens by their choice. That didn't work long ago and it still doesn't work.

[MarkBsnr]

Fair spoken.

But please remember that we do not and have never claimed, not for 2000 years, that man can ascend to heaven by his own effort. We have declared heretical this belief. We keep getting accused directly or else implied that we think so. I wonder what we’re going to have to do other than frogmarch the accusers through the Catechism. They’re used to be frogmarched, aren’t they? :)

We believe, however, that God reaches out with His Grace to all, not those elected from the cosmic bingo barrel.

...(psst, I meant the waters of the Tiber, shhhh)...