Posted on 07/11/2007 7:32:55 AM PDT by kellynla
Brilliant. Islam wants to put all of Christianity to the sword and this dufus decides to start a fight within Christianity!
He already has, and received death threats for it. Keep up with current events - there were articles about it for months.
Brilliant. Islam wants to cut off your head and you spend time here picking a fight with other Christians.
I’m not going to go so far as to call you a dufus, but if the shoe fits.....(btw, Catholics are Christians so he can’t pick a fight with his own people)
you might try actually reading up on what the position of the Catholic Church is on Jews before you come on a Catholic thread and make a total arse out of yourself.
that is, if you reeeely are interested in what the position is...which you have already stated, you don’t care.
you’ve got enough problems in your own faith without coming on Catholic threads with your ill informed opinions.
And don’t bother thanking the MILLIONS of Catholics/Christians who have literally pulled Jews’ arses out of the fires/ovens on more than one occasion. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Catholic/Christians who are fighting Muslims and millions who are contributing their tax dollars to Israel!
Class Dismissed!
The Roman Catholic Church's involvement with the sack of Constantinople in 1204 was limited to the Pope refusing to authorize the leaders of that sack with any ecclesiastical authority or approbation - in fact one of those leaders was excommunicated before he even set foot in Greece.
After the sack, the Pope officially condemned these two men in writing and interdicted them and their troops, cutting them off from the sacraments.
The army that sacked Constantinople was largely composed of Orthodox Christians who were settling an internal dynastic dispute.
The sack of Constantinople had nothing to do with Catholicism or the Crusades, and John Paul II's statement of regret and revulsion over some of the sackers calling themselves "Catholics" was a very generous gesture, given the fact that his predecessor Innocent III had already roundly condemned the action eight centuries before.
There can only be one real Christian Church, as I see it. Truth can't be spread thin like peanutbutter, nor can it be reduced, diluted or altered to suit the individual's pride. For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has been proclaiming "we are the true faith". Five hundred years ago some prideful balloons split from the Church to found their own parallel churches, sans the Pope and certain Sacraments and other integral theology. I'll take my truth unadulterated, thank you, and have a Pope, as the early Church had Peter and then his successor bishops of Rome. You can have your "softer, easier way", a rudderless 'church' that caters to a human pride that cannot accept that God gave His Church a human head, a vicar to take the place of the Risen Christ. Protestantism is just another term for human pride, imho.
“Not sure how you reconcile that with the Bible?”
hey, genius, no Catholic KNOWINGLY contributed monetarily to ANY child molestation.
You might educate yourself on the facts before you come on a thread and make a total arse out of yourself!
gezzzzzzzz...the IQ level drops by the minute ‘round here. LMAO
Oops, I missed one:
If it isn’t Roman Catholic then it’s not a proper Church, Pope tells Christians
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1863951/posts
Now you can go through and post your clarification on all of the existing threads - or ping all of the posters on those threads to this one.
This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as "the pillar and mainstay of the truth".(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.
- from Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, paragraph 8 (1964).
I. THE CHURCH IS ONE"The sacred mystery of the Church's unity" (UR 2)
813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church:
What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262
814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. and so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."264
815 What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony."265 But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:
- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;
- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.266
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267
The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268
Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
- From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1993)
Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in The Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic . For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same, inasmuch as it loves the neighbor, and consequently readily forgives the neighbor's sins, because it prays that forgiveness may be extended to itself by Him who has reconciled us to Himself, doing away with all past things, and calling us to a new life. And until we reach the perfection of this new life, we cannot be without sins. Nevertheless it is a matter of consequence of what sort those sins may be.- From St. Augustine, Faith and the Creed (393 AD)
Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,—in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,—and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.
- From Tertullian, The Prescription Against Heretics, 30 (AD 200)
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.- From Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaens 8, (AD 110)
I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
- St. Paul, Letter to the Ephesians 4:3, circa AD 58-63.
In other words, the document that is stirring up all this controversy is not stating any new doctrine. It has been Catholic doctrine since the beginning. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's life.
Believe you have it backwards. The Patriarch of Constantinople. Michael Cerularius, caused the rift when he rejected accepted theology and altered the Nicene Creed. Incidentally, the Great Schism was not the first break from the church as an earlier one occurred Circa 400 AD with the establishment of the eastern Asyrian church.
I am aware of current and past events, including the Pope apologizing for weeks and saying he was only quoting someone else
Obviously not a Papal Bull. :)
Did you not even bother to read the link to the Pope’s answers?
Or are you just too busy posting LSM links to ant-Catholic articles .
The Byzantines called Islam defective, and got Istanbul for their trouble.
Go back and study your history click here before lecturing us protestants about the "a vicar to take the place of the Risen Christ" as I don't believe the Risen Christ would agree with all the choices Roman cardinals have made about whom should guide the church. You can have your former Seig Heiling Hitler enthusiast to head the Church of Rome...I'll stick to my Episcopal "pride" and apostolic succession from St. Peter.
That's a great example! Thanks!
“Seig Heiling Hitler enthusiast to head the Church of Rome?”
The only response warranted to such a lame remark is my tagline.
Criticism of Joseph Ratzinger:
Hitler Jugend: Joseph Ratzinger’s claims about the Hitler Youth are not true. Compulsory membership was first defined in 1936 and reinforced in 1939, not in 1941 as he says. Ratzinger also says that he was “still too young” at the time, but he was 14 in 1941 and not too young at all: between the ages of 10 and 14, membership in the Deutsche Jungvolk (a group for younger children) was mandatory. Yet there is no mention of Raztinger belonging. If he had managed to avoid the required membership in the Deutsche Jungvolk, why did he suddenly join the Hitler Youth in 1941?
Resistance: Both Joseph Ratzinger and his brother, Georg, have said that “resistance was impossible” at the time and, therefore, it’s not surprising or morally culpable that they also “went along.” This is also not true. First, it’s insulting to the many who risked their lives to resist the Nazi regime, both in organized cells and on an individual basis. Second, there are many examples of those who refused service in the Hitler Youth for a variety of reasons.
Whatever the Ratzinger family did and whatever Joseph Ratzinger’s father did, it wasn’t enough to be arrested or sent to a concentration camp. It doesn’t even appear to have been enough to warrant being detained and questioned by the Gestapo.
Military: Although it is true that Ratzinger deserted the military rather than continue fighting, he didn’t do so until April 1945, when the end of the war was quite close.
Resolution
There is absolutely no reason to think that Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, is now or has ever been secretly a Nazi. Nothing he has ever said or done even remotely suggests the slightest sympathy with any of the basic Nazi ideas or goals. Any claim that he is a Nazi is implausible at best. However, that is not the end of the story.
While Ratzinger was not a Nazi in the past and Benedict XVI is not a Nazi now, there is more than enough reason to question his handling of his past. It appears that he hasn’t been honest with others — and probably not honest with himself — about what he did and what he could have done.
It’s simply not true that resistance was impossible at the time. Difficult, yes; dangerous, yes. But not impossible. John Paul II participated in anti-Nazi theater performances in Poland, yet there is no evidence of Joseph Ratzinger even doing this much.
Ratzinger may have done more than many others to resist, but he also did far less that some. It’s certainly understandable that he wouldn’t have had the courage to do more and, were he any average person, that would be the end of the story. But he isn’t an average person, is he? He’s the pope, a person who is supposed to be the successor of Peter, head of the Christian Church, and symbol of unity for all Christendom.
You don’t have to be morally perfect to hold such a position, but it’s not unreasonable to expect such a person to have come to terms with their moral failings, even the moral failings that occurred in youth when we don’t usually expect a great deal. It was an understandable mistake or failing not to do more against the Nazis, but still a failing that he hasn’t come to terms with — it sounds rather like he is in denial. In a sense, he has yet to repent; yet he was still considered the best of all the candidates for the papacy.
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