Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
————————————————-
(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
How about because he, Satan is a deceiver? Who mixes truth with falsehoods.....
What better way to deceive? Satan knows the bible better than most humans...God knows..His ex-head praise and worship angel knows who His Son is. Lying & deception is his mark.
Sincere prayer or not....the one that roars like a lion, is a liar. And you wouldn't be the first one to be fooled.
Just because you prayed, and think you got an answer doesn't mean it was from God. I've known too many folks that have been tripped up like that.
The exact opposite of what you have said could be said of many who've left Mormonism...They grew up in the LDS way...and had revelations/questions/prayers answered that "proved to them" that Mormonism was absolutely false. How is that?
"Ex 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?"
If you think this means that God is one among many, then you also believe in the many idols/false gods of the day.
So, sacrificed any children to Molech lately?
Like I’ve said repeatedly, if God allowed me to be deceived by Satan when I went to him in sincere prayer; he then is not worthy of my worship and I will accuse him of lying to me at Judgment Day. I’ll gladly go to hell than worship such a capricious god. He is untrustworthy and subjective.
Oh gosh, another person whose shallow knowledge of the Bible will damn him from his full potential. Too bad you will never join the bene ha elohim ...
Your answer:
"Frankly, I do NOT care whether you believe my experience of an answered prayer - that’s between me and God. If it was false, I’ll charge him with lying to me when I came to him in sincere prayer.
I’m just saying I believe ANYONE who says God told them the opposite is a liar and I will never believe them over God."
LOL, and I'm surprised that is your answer....NOT!
The spirit of antichrist is strong in you, Ed. I’ll keep praying for you though. Wander back into your Bible and read what Jesus said about Himself, His work, His baptism. [HINT: Jesus stated flatly, “No man cometh to the Father but by me”. He is the Way, the Truth, and The Light. All have come short of the Glory of God. There is none righteous, no not one. Enjoy your evening, Ed.]
All of these Romney posts and he has remained silent?
I believe it takes a lot of time to debate and write books, perhaps that's why we haven't been treated to the "Wonderful World of Watson" before now.
You are the one equating false gods with God in Scripture in order to claim the Bible teaches polytheism.
Your claim is flatly false on its face.
I also noticed that you didn't refute the claim of Mormon polytheism, instead you chose to attack the Bible.
There is none righteous. Not me, you or any Jew Hindu or Buddhist.
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ditto to you. I’m glad I participated here today - I won’t again for a very long while since it’s a waste of time and effort. You anti-Mormons with your smug arrogance and constant lies and misrepresentations about my church are a drain on the soul and you deserve what you get when the time comes.
Christ is definitely not pleased when his so-called followers behave in such a manner.
I’m also glad to see there’s still no substance to your arguments - perhaps someone, someday will follow our exchanges and see who between us faced the facts without engaging in logical fallacies.
I’m outta here!
Re: #578, Guess Who? Recognize the spam technique?
"smug arrogance" - that might be new.
(Christ's) "so-called followers" - Also new?
Point me to the posts the others are in...a true gold mine today ;)
Sorry to see you go. I didn’t get to finish my post about rightousness.
This is for the benefit of any who are still reading:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The same illogic in the following flawed syllogism is familiar: “Christ is definitely not pleased when his so-called followers behave in such a manner.” Satan is a master of Gordian ‘nots’.
Despite this, I firmly believe it’s the true church and if it isn’t, then there is no “true church” on the earth, and probably no God either.
Then this post...and your words again.
Lookit, if you don’t want to be exalted, who’s forcing you? You don’t have to join the Mormon church in order to be saved and go to heaven. Stay where you are, have faith in Christ and live righteously
Wait a minute......are you really saying, us mere Christians will not be exalted in God's eyes?
And to top it off....if Mormonism is false..then there's no God?
BTW, is there only one God?
If he was born how could he exist before he existed? If he didn’t exist then he is not eternal. What you need to do NEED to do, is take a serious look at Joseph Smith. I can point you to outright lies made by Joseph Smith to the Church:
Joseph Smith is provably a liar. Toward the end of Smith’s life people began to learn of his polygamy, which he kept hidden. William Law was Joseph Smith’s second counselor in the church’s First Presidency. He filed suit against Joseph Smith for living ``in an open state of adultery’’ with 19-year-old Maria Lawrence.
In 1844, Joseph Smith already had at least 33 wives
http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insacred.htm#chart
Joseph Smith falsely denied he was a polygamist:
What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.
I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors.
Here is a link to the actual sermon where he falsely denied polygamy in response to the accusations:
http://www.boap.org/LDS/History/History_of_the_Church/Vol_VI
Do a find for: “Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.”
Similarly I can show you that the Book of Mormon was written by a man, not God, and is false prophecy because incorrect.
You don’t need the Holy Spirit to escape a cult. God (the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega, who existed before “In the beginning” — the real eternal God), God gave you a mind. You can blinker yourself to all evidence or you can find the truth and believe in Christ. “In the beginning was the word . . .” The beginning being “the beginning,” not an intermediate point in an a eternal universe that creates God.
Basically, your theology is “There is not a beginning, but there was a universe and it created God, but was not God . . .”
That theology was created by a proven liar.
If it was false, I’ll charge him with lying to me when I came to him in sincere prayer.
__________________________________________________________
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 1:21-25)
Surely you jest.........!!!
Do you actually deny the Word of God on this subject?
Do you really, really not believe in the Word of God? The God I serve is a God of His Word. And His Word is the same today, as yesterday, and forever. Do NOT mock is Word.
Frankly, sir you are proving you have been deceived.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.