Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Michael Whiting, assistant professor of integrative biology, said Wednesday in the HBLL auditorium that the DNA evidence that attempts to disprove the Book of Mormon was not attained through scientific methods.
"We didn't think the arguments were good enough to respond to," Whiting said.
Whiting said the Book of Mormon was not written as a scientific book, and therefore cannot be wholly proved or disproved using scientific methods.
"If Joseph Smith turned it into the National Science Foundation, he would have received no funding," Whiting said. "DNA analysis can neither refute or corroborate the lineage history as put forth in the Book of Mormon."
Tom Kimball, a publicist, said when Whiting referred to those who didn't understand the scientific method he was talking about his client, Thomas Murphy.
Murphy contributed to the book American Apocrypha. In the book, Murphy, a professor of anthropology at Edmonds Community College in Lynnwood, Wash., presents DNA evidence that questions the validity of the Book of Mormon.
Recent attempts at disproving the Book of Mormon center around the idea that a population's movement and history can be traced using certain genetic markers within that population.
Whiting put it this way: Imagine that a store has four gumball machines, and each machine carries only one color of gumball. If the store manager arrived in his shop one morning and found a blue gumball on the floor he would assume it came from the machine carrying blue gumballs.
This simple principle can be applied to population genetics.
Suppose a scientist identifies a genetic marker in a source population. The scientist could then assume that other populations carrying that same genetic marker were related to the source population.
Thus, to disprove the Book of Mormon one would only need to prove that genetic markers found within Middle-Eastern populations are not present in American Indians, since the introduction in the Book of Mormon says Lamanites, "are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
Lamanites, according to the Book of Mormon, descended from Middle-Eastern populations.
DNA evidence suggests, however, that American Indians are related to populations of Asian heritage.
Whiting does not deny DNA analysis links American Indians with Asians, but he said such evidence is no reason to disbelieve the Book of Mormon.
Whiting said there are several reasons genetic markers that would link American Indians with Middle-Eastern ancestors cannot be found.
Genetic drift and the Founder's Effect, two theories that can account for the loss of genetic markers within a population, were probably at work over the last 1,600 years since Lehi and his family came to the American continent, he said.
According to Whiting's presentation, it is no surprise that DNA analysis could not find a genetic marker that links American Indians to a Middle-Eastern population.
"I would be skeptical of someone standing up and saying, 'I have DNA evidence that the Book of Mormon is true,'" Whiting said.
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What I fine this interesting... Got lemons make lemon aid!:)
"DNA evidence suggests, however, that American Indians are related to populations of Asian heritage.
Whiting does not deny DNA analysis links American Indians with Asians, but he said such evidence is no reason to disbelieve the Book of Mormon."
As I studied the Book of Mormon I recognize that not all of the citizens in Jerusalem were of Judah, like any Metropolitan city I also realized there were Asian as well and that Laban also had Asian heritage as well as Jewish.
I have a book that shows that China seems to be the oldest recorded in history and they had in their writing many scriptures from the Old Testament writings
You need not convince me of the Bible matter of fact since I have all the standard works when I read the Bible it is that much richer!
Tell CC I have seen all her toys before!:)
You can deny the truth for the rest of your life, but it will not make the DNA change into something it is not. Smith fabricated the book of mormon as an historic testimony of Israelites settled in the Americas. That was and is and will always remain a lie. DNA proves it a lie by giving irrefutable proof that Native Americans are descended from Asians not Israelites as Smith claimed for the Lamanites.
How many more 'nots' will you tie your mind into in order to continue believing the big lies of Smith? You are determined to continue believing regardless of the falseness inherent in Smithism. For that zeal you may be commended, but I contend for your immortal soul so I will continue to post the refutations of Smithism.
Delphi: “In Genesis 3:22 it says:
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Notice the part I bolded? God said Man had become “one of Us” These prove
A) That Satan lied about Dieing. B) That Satan did not lie about become as god knowing Good and evil
C) the Godhead made up of discrete, but harmonious beings is the correct interpretation of God’s being.”
First of all, you need to read the Biblical passage closely because the verse says “has become AS (like) one of us in knowing good and evil”. It does not say “has become one of us”. The verse merely shows that Adam and Eve had become “AS” God only in the respect of knowing good and evil. This is because they had now brought sin into the world - prior to this they certainly knew only good.
Obviously Adam and Eve did not have all the qualities of God after eating the fruit because they now had the potential to sin - which we know is incompatible with being God.
Regarding your item c), God IS made up of discrete components as all good Trinitarians are well aware - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This does not imply that there are numerous other Gods beyond the Trinity that exists - especially prior to Adam and Eve since there were no other men in existence at the time this was spoken - let alone other Gods
Resty, are you trying to say that CC sent to me these links? Because if that’s the weak accusation you prefer know that such is not the truth. And how would it make any difference if you have chosen to not open your mind to the truth? Take care that you do not heap up about you so deep a darkness that God’s laser will not penetrate.
Sling a few more dirt clods at the messenger, it will not change the DNA into something it is not to make it verify the lies of the Book of Mormon. BUT WAIT! The assertions of the B of M are not lies if they aren't touted as truth. So, do you want to claim the B of M doesn't claim historically that Native Americans are descended from Israelites? Are you frustrated that we opposers to the heresies of Mormonism won't sit down and shut up when slammed by your 'superior' but empty arguments? Is it frustrating to you that those you have condescendingly claimed cannot match your debating powers merely post the truth about Smith and his fabrications and that exposes the foolishness at the heart of Mormonism? The 'ISM' is in gross error. The people need to hear the truth about the ISM.
That was a funny!:)
.... and it appears you seem to know nothing about faith or you would not be making these silly accusation in how to do it!
Fear is NOT of the Lord, but you have been displaying pleanty here from your repertoire
LOL......... keep trying sweetie but it ain’t flying!
Well, Resty, at least you’re getting a laugh from it all ... though the reality is far from funny.
Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, Resty, didn’t you know?
For your edification, Resty:
Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Psalms 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
Psalms 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psalms 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
Psalms 34:11 Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Psalms 135:20 Bless the LORD, O house of Levi: ye that fear the LORD, bless the LORD.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.
Acts 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear
Fear comes from the opposition to get others to do his bidding one must comply or be doom is your repeated MO to those who are LDS!
Matthew 22:29-30 doesn't seem confusing to me. Does it confuse you?
If you don't agree with Jesus, what is your answer to Matthew 22:28?
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Is this other earth outside the "heavens?" If not, there may be a bit of a paradox here.
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