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To: GoLightly

You wrote: “I’ll remember that when I see the claims made by the Roman catholic Church that most of the deaths of the Inquisition took place after convictions in secular courts (under control of Catholic Monarchs).”

I’m glad you’ll remember that because then you’ll always know that the situation in Catholic states was often radically different. In no Catholic country was the Church controlled by the state nor was the state controlled by the Church. This is why there was tension between the two constantly unlike in Protestant countries where the first steps toward totalitarianism took place.

Also, the Catholic Church makes no claims at all about how deaths after inquisition trials or even secular courts took place. It would help if you knew what you were talking about.


33 posted on 05/08/2007 9:41:31 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
I’m glad you’ll remember that because then you’ll always know that the situation in Catholic states was often radically different. In no Catholic country was the Church controlled by the state nor was the state controlled by the Church. This is why there was tension between the two constantly unlike in Protestant countries where the first steps toward totalitarianism took place.

A very important point, Henry VIII and Calvin's Geneva being the examples par excellence.

In the thought of Calvin, state and church were distinct, but each in its proper sphere was to cooperate with the other in their great common purpose: to serve and glorify God. By the end of his career he had achieved a complete dominance of Geneva, which makes it possible for us to see what his full program was. All inhabitants had to renounce the Roman faith on penalty of expulsion from the city. Nobody could possess images, crucifixes or other articles associated with the Roman worship. Fasting was prohibited, together with vows, pilgrimages, prayers for the dead, and prayers in Latin. Nobody could say anything good about the pope. It was forbidden to give non-Biblical names to children. In 1555, a man who had been found lighting a candle before the body of his dead child was called before the Consistory. Attendance at sermons was compulsory. In addition, one had to arrive on time, remain, and pay attention. In 1547, a man who left during the sermon and made too much noise about it was imprisoned. From 1545, there were domiciliary visits, which were put on a regular semiannual basis in 1550. The homes of the citizens were visited in order to ascertain the state of the family's morals. A great many spies were maintained, to report on matters of conduct and behavior. Dramatic performances were suppressed, except for plays given by schoolboys. Sexual immorality was frequently practiced and frequently chastised. One of the offenses considered particularly serious was criticism of the ministers and especially Calvin.

Calvin and Geneva


37 posted on 05/08/2007 10:45:08 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: vladimir998
I’m glad you’ll remember that because then you’ll always know that the situation in Catholic states was often radically different. In no Catholic country was the Church controlled by the state nor was the state controlled by the Church. This is why there was tension between the two constantly unlike in Protestant countries where the first steps toward totalitarianism took place.

If you were a Protestant living in a Catholic state during the Reformation, I'm sure you'd see that "totalitarian" question differently. If you believed any of the earlier heresies & had the Church offer up all of your stuff to any prince willing to deal with you, you might see that "totalitarian" question differently too. Think there could have been a Holy Roman Empire if the Church hadn't dabbled in the affairs of men?

Despite the Monarchs' & Church's differences, they often worked together.

Also, the Catholic Church makes no claims at all about how deaths after inquisition trials or even secular courts took place. It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

The Church has been pretty vocal about "correcting" the history.

39 posted on 05/08/2007 11:07:48 AM PDT by GoLightly
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