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'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480

'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

By John-Henry Westen

NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.

While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."

In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.

The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."

Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".

The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."

Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."

Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."

Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."

Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."

And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."

See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholics; christmas; mary; movie; nativity; nativitystory; thenativitystory
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To: Forest Keeper

being born again is a work too.


7,481 posted on 01/25/2007 2:02:10 PM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: Forest Keeper
As far as I know, the RCC has held a steady and consistent position on this

Except for Vatican-purchased and approved annulments. Even a marriage that has produced legitimate children and been sanctioned in a RC church in a ceremony conducted by a RC priest can be "annulled" for spurious reasons.

7,482 posted on 01/25/2007 2:11:12 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Blogger; Mad Dawg
It was an act of HIS WILL that caused the Word to come into this world He could have impregated Mary against her will.

"He could have" in the sense that He had the power. He also could have redeemed all sin at any point in time, without any progressive revelation to the Jews, incarnation or resurrection, or the institution of the Church, or the inspiration of the Scripture. He is sovereign God, remember?

But God did not do any of that. He chose to adopt a lengthy plan of salvation that grew His own nation of Israel under the law, and that nation produced a woman who would be the pure vessel to willingly carry the Word to the world. This woman is Mary the God Giver, the Theotokos.

7,483 posted on 01/25/2007 2:11:16 PM PST by annalex
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To: Blogger
The keys to the kingdom given to Peter is a your INTERPRETATION

What interpretation? "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven".

What you think and what St. Augistine thinks, and what the Protestant or the Orthodox think is interpretation. some is better than others. This is plain text, the keys to the kingdom given to Peter.

7,484 posted on 01/25/2007 2:16:14 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
I'm going to maintain there's a different aspect to the disagreement.

In the 1571 and 1662 texts of the 39 Articles of the Church of England was article XXI:

.... . When [general councils] be gathered together (forasmuch as they be an assembly of men, whereof all not not governed with the Spirit and Word of God,) they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining to God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture.
This is an approach which seems to me to deny any reliable authority of any kind, since, as we see "proving things from Scripture" is a horse race.

I don't say this disparagingly. I just think it represents a very different approach to ecclesiology, apostolicity, and the promise of God's Spirit leading the Church.

7,485 posted on 01/25/2007 2:44:52 PM PST by Mad Dawg ("It's our humility which makes us great." -- Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg
ultimate destiny is decided from the foundation, etc. So, the Judgment concerning salvation is secure in my view.

It should not be:

brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election.

(2 Peter 1:10)

4 ... the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. 6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation

(Romans 2)

The election before the foundation of the world is foreknown by God who foreknows your works. As you are breathing and working it is not secure at all. Your faith should give you hope, not presumption. The particular judgement is necessary. It is also scriptural: "it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27), "I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

The individual soul receives one judgement upon death. The universal judgement at the End Times is when the world as a whole is judged, boith living and the dead, and the elect receive their glorified bodies (Matthew 25).

both "doctrine" and "dogma".

Doctrine is any teaching at all, dogma is reserved to infallible doctrines that are essentials to the faith.

Peter is saying that as we do good works in love for Christ, that we may be sure of our salvation. Doing the good works is a confirmation, for our benefit, that we were previously called to do them, and previously elected.

You can read it that way as long as we recognize that these works will not come automatically, but must be chosen by our free will, and should we not chose them, he would be "unfruitful, blind, and groping", and his "old sins" although forgotten, will be replaced by new sins.

to say that the issue of remarriage is not a matter of tradition really did have me laughing out loud

You can laugh all you want about how annulment is practiced, but prohibition of remarriage is an issue of plain scripture and not tradition: "Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her." (Mark 10:11). One can, perhaps, make exception for fornication based on the similar passage in Matthew, but the principle is clear.

the other scripture telling us what Christians are supposed to do.

Works salvation! See that thunderbolt coming from heaven? Aha!

7,486 posted on 01/25/2007 2:47:41 PM PST by annalex
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper
Once again, doctor, you insert yourself as an authority on things Catholic. Be assured that when I decide to opine what the Presbyterian bleiefs are, you'll be the first I will turn to for clarifications.

Even a marriage that has produced legitimate children and been sanctioned in a RC church in a ceremony conducted by a RC priest can be "annulled" for spurious reasons.

Marriage exists if a freely undertaken informed consent to marry exists for both sides. The ceremony, Catholic or otherwise, is merely an ourtward expression of such consent. If, for example, a marriage involved a prior bond (such as a previous marriage or holy orders), or was not open to procreation, or was not intended for life, or fidelity was not intended, then such marriage is likely invalid, no matter what ceremony.

Which, by the way, explains why the annulments are so common: because the modern culture of marriage produces marriages that are largely invalid.

For completeness, in addition to consent, there needs to be another factor for an annulment: the marriage no matter how implausibly conceived must be challenged by one or both putative spouses. An unchallenged marriage is presumed valid.

7,487 posted on 01/25/2007 2:59:03 PM PST by annalex
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To: Blogger; Quix; wmfights
Those who believe in the eternal security of the believer are usually more biblically aware than that and will take the WHOLE of Scripture as a rule of faith and practice.

Amen, absolutely right. Quix, I'm sorry if your experience with Calvinists has been to the contrary. I have never known or heard of any true Calvinist who held the views you describe. Since that attitude is 100% against Calvinism, perhaps the people you are thinking of aren't really Calvinists at all.

7,488 posted on 01/25/2007 3:01:35 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: D-fendr
Protestants as opposed to the Orthodox (and contemplative catholics) speak of 'the Spirit' differently.

I was unaware of that. Is there an easy way to say how?

7,489 posted on 01/25/2007 3:16:45 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Blogger; Quix
Those who believe in the eternal security of the believer are usually more biblically aware than that and will take the WHOLE of Scripture as a rule of faith and practice.

I'm not quite sure where you are in this discussion. I think POTS and OSAS are the same. As I see it the fundamental difference is "will" are we drawn to saving faith or do we choose saving faith. Either way we should be jumping up and down with joy. Saving Faith means your blessed with God's free gift of GRACE!

BTW: FK; I can't believe how diligent you are in responding to all posts. Feel free to skip mine if the discussion has moved on. :-)

7,490 posted on 01/25/2007 3:20:11 PM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
Tell that to Sheila Kennedy after her marriage to Joe Kennedy was annulled, 12 years and several children after the fact. Talk about hypocrisy. Rome has not learned that not everything can or should be rationalized away, try though it might.

KENNEDY ADMITS `MISTAKES' DURING FIRST MARRIAGE
By CHRIS BLACK

c.1997 The Boston Globe

WASHINGTON—US Representative Joseph P. Kennedy II apologized Thursday for mistakes he made during his first marriage, in an attempt to address questions raised about his temperament and behavior in a book written by his former wife.

``I am terribly sorry for any of the mistakes I made in our relationship,'' Kennedy said at a news conference when asked about his treatment of his former wife, Sheila Rauch Kennedy. ``I have deep regrets about my relationship with Sheila and what happened to that relationship. There are certainly things I wish I never said, and I presume Sheila feels the same way.''

Mrs. Kennedy, in her new book, ``Shattered Faith,'' and in earlier interviews, said her former husband repeatedly told her she was ``a nobody'' as his interest turned to politics during his first congressional campaign in 1986. She described him as short-tempered and demanding.

Later, she said, he berated her for not cooperating with his attempt to obtain an annulment of their 12-year marriage. She began a promotion tour Thursday for the book, a stinging critique of the Roman Catholic Church's annulment practices.

Joseph Kennedy Thursday broke from his usual ``no comments'' about the annulment and his first marriage as a poll commissioned by WHDH-TV in Boston showed the issue may be inflicting political damage. This was the same finding in two other recent polls, one by the University of Massachusetts' nonpartisan McCormack Institute and one by the Boston Herald.

Nearly one-third of 437 Massachusetts voters surveyed by Mason-Dixon Political Media Research in the WHDH poll said the annulment controversy made them less likely to vote for him for governor, if he runs next year, as is expected. The survey has a margin of error of plus or minus five percentage points.

Eighty-nine percent of those polled had heard or read about the controversy concerning the annulment. Only 12 percent agreed with the statement that male members of the Kennedy family had shown proper respect to women, while 59 did not agree. In a head-to-ead competition against Governor William F. Weld , Kennedy trailed 56 percent to 36 percent in the poll.

Kennedy said Thursday he sought the annulment so he and his wife, Beth, 40, who is also his secretary, could fully practice their religion. Divorced Roman Catholics and subsequent spouses cannot take communion or go to confession unless the previous marriage has been annulled.

``Getting an annulment is the only way, the only way, that I can go to communion with my children and my wife, and that is important to me,'' said Kennedy, a Democrat from Boston's Brighton district.

He filed for the annulment in 1993, two years after receiving a civil divorce and while he was preparing to marry Anne Elizabeth Kelly, known as Beth.

Sheila Kennedy opposed the annulment, which was granted last year by the Archdiocese of Boston. She has appealed to the Vatican. The couple have two sons, 16-year-old twins, Matthew and Joseph 3d.

``I was in a relationship that had, in so many ways, just deteriorated,'' said Kennedy, who uncharacteristically spoke slowly and somberly at the news conference. He said anyone who had gone through a difficult relationship could understand that ``you say things that you wish you never said.''

The controversy over the annulment seems to have caught Kennedy by surprise as he moves toward a probable campaign for governor.

``I just feel that this seeking of an annulment is effectively asking for a Catholic divorce,'' Kennedy said. ``I did not seek a divorce. I never felt this would have the impact that it has.''

Sheila Kennedy filed for divorce in September 1990, and it became final in January 1991. They share custody of their sons, who live with their mother in Cambridge, Mass.

``I'm very sorry for what happened to our marriage but I continue to be a strong believer in the Catholic Church,'' he said.

Although he has characterized himself as ``a cafeteria Catholic'' and acknowledged that he disagrees with the church on some major issues, such as abortion, birth control, divorce and the priesthood for women, he said his religion remained part of his ``core'' beliefs.

``There are going to be elements of church teaching that I have had disagreements with,'' he said. ``If my religion ends up creating some controversy, those are aspects of my religion that I accept. It's a religious issue for me. I have to do what I think is right.''

``I go to church every Sunday with my sons, and I can't go to communion with them. Beth can't go to communion. I haven't been to confession in 3 1/2 years. This is a very difficult thing for a Catholic who believes in the teachings of the Church,'' he said.

He declined to confirm his reported description of the annulment procedure as ``Catholic gobblygook'' in a conversation with his former wife.

``I'm not going to get into all of the private personal conversations with my ex-wife in a public format,'' he said.

He said he viewed the annulment procedure as an accommodation made by the Catholic Church so divorced Catholics can return as full practicing members of the faith. The Catholic Church grants nearly 60,000 annulment petitions each year in the United States.

``This is a way that the Catholic Church is trying to reach out to divorced Catholics that welcomes them back into the church,'' he said. ``Is it the cleanest process? Maybe not, but it is a significant step forward. I appreciate the fact that the church is trying to find a way to allow divorced Catholics back into the church.''

He said he regarded a gubernatorial campaign against Weld, who has sent mixed signals about whether he will seek a third four-year term, as ``a tough race. I don't think I've made it any easier on myself,'' he said.

``At a certain point, this issue no longer should be looked at through a political prism,'' he said. ``I have to look at this as a religious and a personal issue.''
7,491 posted on 01/25/2007 3:29:30 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper
He said he viewed the annulment procedure as an accommodation made by the Catholic Church so divorced Catholics can return as full practicing members of the faith.

So? He views wrong.

Nothing in what you posted contains any informed criticism of the annulment process. Someone wrote a critical book about the Church. Dime a dosen. And yes, everyone admits that some annulments look strange.

7,492 posted on 01/25/2007 3:38:43 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
It's the inherent double-standard of Rome and its assertion that "this is truth -- sort of, some times" that rankles Protestant ears.

My husband said he left the RC church while a student at a Catholic university when a priest admitted that the clergy wasn't really necessary for a man's sins to be forgiven, leaving my husband to wonder, "then what's all this stuff about?"

Thankfully, he returned to Scripture and found out what it's all about -- Christ risen.

7,493 posted on 01/25/2007 3:53:18 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Forest Keeper

Thanks for your reply.

The difference between the way we speak of "the Spirit" is something I've been more aware of reading this thread. I'm not sure how to express it.

One way would be the prayer to the Holy Spirit O Heavenly King:

"O Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere present and fillest all things, Treasury of good things and Giver of life: Come and dwell in us, and cleanse us of all impurity, and save, our souls, O Good One."

So we can speak of "Spirit" in two ways: As God and as in relationship to us now. "Everywhere present", yet "come and dwell in us"..

I think when Contemplatives and Orthodox speak of "the Spirit" quite often we mean more accurately our 'conscious contact with the divine' or our current state of grace, lack thereof, or our current spiritual condition.

This can be a state of being or consciousness that we are aware of, and it may also include an almost bookkeeping accounting of our unrepented sins and the purity of our heart.

Spiritual growth then is a more, I believe, tangible or intuitively known state of being or intention. It is, in large measure the condition of our heart - which is the perceptual organ, eye, that is used to know God. And through askesis and God's grace this develops over time into more constant conscious contact with God.

This is different I believe than how I see others talk of the Holy Spirit.


7,494 posted on 01/25/2007 4:02:31 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper

Your husband can come back, with a sacramental confession, any time.

I don't know what thet priest really said. He might have been misinformed, misunderstood, or he might have referred to some unusual circumstances under Canon Law, when a sacramental confession is impossible and death is imminent.


7,495 posted on 01/25/2007 4:04:54 PM PST by annalex
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To: wmfights; Forest Keeper; Blogger; Quix

"As I see it the fundamental difference is "will" are we drawn to saving faith or do we choose saving faith. Either way we should be jumping up and down with joy. Saving Faith means your blessed with God's free gift of GRACE!"

Perhaps it effects us in different ways at different times or according to the "step" we are on on the Ladder of Divine Ascent.

"At the start of the spiritual way, the soul usually has the conscious experience of being illumined with its own light through the action of grace. But, as it advances further in its struggle to attain theology, grace works its mysteries within the soul for the most part without its knowledge. Grace acts in these two ways so that it may first set us rejoicing on the path of contemplation, calling us from ignorance to spiritual knowledge, and so that in the midst of our struggle it may then keep this knowledge free from arrogance." +Diadochos of Photiki


7,496 posted on 01/25/2007 4:18:16 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; wmfights; Forest Keeper; Blogger; Quix
2. It should be known, then, that God nurtures and caresses the soul, after it has been resolutely converted to his service, like a loving mother who warms her child with the heat of her bosom, nurses it with good milk and tender food, and carries and caresses it in her arms. But as the child grows older, the mother withholds her caresses and hides her tender love; she rubs bitter aloes on her sweet breast and sets the child down from her arms, letting it walk on its own feet so that it may put aside the habits of childhood and grow accustomed to greater and more important things. The grace of God acts just as a loving mother by re-engendering in the soul new enthusiasm and fervor in the service of God. With no effort on the soul's part, this grace causes it to taste sweet and delectable milk and to experience intense satisfaction in the performance of spiritual exercises, because God is handing the breast of his tender love to the soul, just as if it were a delicate child [1 Pt. 2:2-3].1

(Book ONE - Chapter 1)

Here is the entire book: The Dark Night By St. John of the Cross.

7,497 posted on 01/25/2007 4:27:45 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
He might have been misinformed, misunderstood, or he might have referred to some unusual circumstances under Canon Law, when a sacramental confession is impossible and death is imminent.

I think that's the point. Forgiveness through Christ's atonement isn't confusing, oblique, uncertain, ill-defined, or circumstantial. It is black and white. Either Christ died so that you and I and all God's children would stand before God acquitted of our sins, or He didn't.

I believe He did, as Christ has assured us in Scripture.

7,498 posted on 01/25/2007 4:30:14 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; blue-duncan
Your husband can come back, with a sacramental confession, any time.

I know your offer is sincere, but a day does not dawn that my husband does not thank God for his faith and for the assurance he and his family have received by the certain knowledge of Christ's redemption of us.

It's a gift.

7,499 posted on 01/25/2007 4:34:19 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Blogger; Mad Dawg

"Anecdotally, I go to the Catholic Store online and click on Statues. There are 8 Jesus statues. There are 20 Mary Statues. There are 12 books on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are 44 on Mary/Rosary. There are 13 Catholic pictures. 7 of them have Mary in them or are all about Mary. It goes on and on. Mary IS worshipped in Catholicism. And the worship of Mary takes the focus off of her Son. Irreconcilable. Short of the Holy Spirit, I agree."

Take a look at these:

http://store.holycrossbookstore.com/

http://www.svspress.com/

You won't find any statues at all, but that's not really our thing. I'd be interested on your take on the offerings of the seminary bookstores. As a pratical matter, aside from a few other presses and monasteries, these are where our books, sacramentals etc come from.


7,500 posted on 01/25/2007 4:36:36 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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