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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg
ultimate destiny is decided from the foundation, etc. So, the Judgment concerning salvation is secure in my view.

It should not be:

brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election.

(2 Peter 1:10)

4 ... the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. 6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation

(Romans 2)

The election before the foundation of the world is foreknown by God who foreknows your works. As you are breathing and working it is not secure at all. Your faith should give you hope, not presumption. The particular judgement is necessary. It is also scriptural: "it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27), "I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

The individual soul receives one judgement upon death. The universal judgement at the End Times is when the world as a whole is judged, boith living and the dead, and the elect receive their glorified bodies (Matthew 25).

both "doctrine" and "dogma".

Doctrine is any teaching at all, dogma is reserved to infallible doctrines that are essentials to the faith.

Peter is saying that as we do good works in love for Christ, that we may be sure of our salvation. Doing the good works is a confirmation, for our benefit, that we were previously called to do them, and previously elected.

You can read it that way as long as we recognize that these works will not come automatically, but must be chosen by our free will, and should we not chose them, he would be "unfruitful, blind, and groping", and his "old sins" although forgotten, will be replaced by new sins.

to say that the issue of remarriage is not a matter of tradition really did have me laughing out loud

You can laugh all you want about how annulment is practiced, but prohibition of remarriage is an issue of plain scripture and not tradition: "Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her." (Mark 10:11). One can, perhaps, make exception for fornication based on the similar passage in Matthew, but the principle is clear.

the other scripture telling us what Christians are supposed to do.

Works salvation! See that thunderbolt coming from heaven? Aha!

7,486 posted on 01/25/2007 2:47:41 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "... ultimate destiny is decided from the foundation, etc. So, the Judgment concerning salvation is secure in my view."

It should not be: ... [2 Peter 1:10, Rom. 2:4-8].

Neither of these passages shutter my assurance, and both are fully in accordance with POTS.

The election before the foundation of the world is foreknown by God who foreknows your works.

Yes. Our difference is whether God elects according to His will or according to man's will.

As you are breathing and working [your salvation] is not secure at all.

That is your free will choice to believe. The knowledge of assurance is available to any believer in the scriptures. I do not think your disbelief will affect your salvation status, it just means that during life you will worry more than your equally-saved counterpart on my side. :)

Your faith should give you hope, not presumption.

It gives me both hope and presumption. "Hope" in the Bible does legitimately connote an expectation of the hope fulfilled, in many cases (elpis).

FK: "Peter is saying that as we do good works in love for Christ, that we may be sure of our salvation. Doing the good works is a confirmation, for our benefit, ..."

You can read it that way as long as we recognize that these works will not come automatically, but must be chosen by our free will, ...

We would say that all of these works come with free will since our salvation set us free to do good works. The difference is whether God granted the power to men to thwart His word or not. If God did grant the power, then sheep will be lost and some of the saved will not do works. If God did not grant the power, then no sheep are lost and all of the saved will do works. The Bible only has any value at all under the latter.

You can laugh all you want about how annulment is practiced, but prohibition of remarriage is an issue of plain scripture and not tradition ...

Yes, it absolutely is a matter of plain scripture, and both of our sides have suffered miserable results over the last few decades. My loud objection is to any Catholic who points his finger at Protestants and says: "Catholics don't get divorced to the level Protestants do". However one wants to parse it, that just doesn't hold water.

7,928 posted on 01/29/2007 7:59:23 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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