Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
How does Catholic or Orthodox Church explain Roman 6:10 (in fact Romans 6:1-10)? I think it's a typical example of "Pauline Christianity" that became part of Protestant dogma. It asserts that Christians don't sin (although in verse 11 he urges them not to sin!).
I will let the 'experts' rationalize this one. To me, +Paul is like eating fish full of bones.
oops,..I actually had the thought regarding Rom 10:6, but typed Rom 6:10 (granted it is very apropo for the discussion.) Sort of makes one wonder how many mistakes are Providence and how many are,... well..., just mistakes.
All cults dealt with in my studies depend on the one they are communicating with DOES NOT KNOW the bible very well.. or is indoctinated out of context..
And it appears not a few mainline churchs do this too.. Amazing to me that some believers appear have more belief in thier "church or tradition" than in the Lord himself.. In my experience it looks like an excuse to remain LAZY in seeking the Lord.. The Jews did that with their "Talmud".. Some christian "churchs" too have a kind of "Talmud"..
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Talmud = A few teachers opinions about scripture and also some other teachers opinions about the first set of teachers opinions..
It is always possible to make a new start by means of repentance. "You fell," it is written, "now arise". And if you fall again, then rise again, without despairing at all of your salvation, no matter what happens. So long as you do not surrender yourself willingly to the enemy, your patient endurance, combined with self-reproach, will suffice for your salvation. "For at one time we ourselves went astray in our folly and disobedience," says St. Paul. "... Yet He saved us, not because of any good things we had done, but in His mercy". +Peter of Damaskos
Similarly in life -- where it's WAY harder to remember, wanting to strap a bomb onto myself and go to the office of the health insurance company is something that other religion is in favor of, but for me, sometimes, it seems like a really good idea, know what I mean? (Admit it. We've ALL been there.)
So I have to remember that for reasons best known to Himself God loves those people too and sent Jesus for them too. And not only that, but many of them are probably trying reasonably hard to do His will.
And even if that were not true, there is a host of reasons why I ought not to inflict my anger - which rises, at bottom, out of my faithlessness - on the poor folks who work there. AND it doesn't do spreading the Gospel a stitch of good.
So, what to do? Let it drop, set it down, apologize, turn to Jesus, move on.
And I would say this is not how I get saved, this is what being saved IS for a neophyte like me and at this point in the heilsgeschichte and in MY hielsgeschichte. The long climb gives me the strength to be at the summit, when and if I shold reach it.
So in general total agreement and thanks. In the details, a little difference in POV.
Now we're gettin on the same page.
Actually it was an attempted paraphrase of St. Basil.
"So in general total agreement and thanks. In the details, a little difference in POV."
Well, that's because you're a Westerner and a Latin! :)
Repentance is translated from metanoia isn't it?
COOL! After all these years of being a boring mostly English and part German extremely white guy, now I'm Latin! Maybe the boss-lady will think I'm sexy, with my smoldering Latin eyes and all.
Gotta go to my tango class!
Yep. Then there's the relationship between metanboia and Shub.THEN all the words for sin.
The life is in Christ and in Him alone.
It is only by receiving Him personally – feeding on Him, the Living Word of God personally, that a man is born again and has the power to become a child of God.
But this too requires Spiritual discernment.
Further I testify that nothing can happen in the life of such a Christian without it also happening to Christ. Demons cannot invade Christ – and nothing can happen to such a one except either according to God’s will or by His permission.
The short version for those with “ears to hear”:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. – Matt 4:4
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. – John 6:35
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. – John 3:5-6
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Col 3:3
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. – James 4:7
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. – Mark 3:11
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. – James 2:19
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. – Rev 20:11
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
Actually, I was the victim of a "demon infestation" once upon a time many, many years ago. I won't go into details except to say it was horrifically black and scary, with a mob of evil spirits hovering all around intent on the destruction of my soul, hurling taunts and execrations, jeering at all that is holy. I almost succumbed out of sheer terror.
Then I -- or rather a small, still Voice within me -- simply said, just rest gently in Jesus' loving arms and He will bring you through this unscathed. Which is exactly what I did, and exactly what He did.
My takeaway, which I've never forgotten: Put all your trust in Jesus Christ and all will be well. For truly as you say, Alamo-Girl: "The life is in Christ, and in Him alone."
A valuable lesson to be saved by the reader, in the "vault" for an uncertain future.. Thanks..
" Truly said and goes back to the very point of my post 7036 for if a man lives by any power other than Christ Himself, he will truly attract demons, have no power within himself to resist them – and he will crash and burn."
Why would demons bother with such a person, AG? Doesn't this person already belong to them?
" Further I testify that nothing can happen in the life of such a Christian without it also happening to Christ. Demons cannot invade Christ – and nothing can happen to such a one except either according to God’s will or by His permission."
Interesting. Are demons God's agents of Evil to mankind? Put another way, is God the creator of Evil?
"So there is nothing to fear the demons just like there is no reason to complain, no reason to doubt, no reason to worry, no reason to resent, no reason to want and so on."
I take it you understand Christians to be in a state of perfect theosis, in other words, that they have arrived at a likeness of God to such an extent that demons not only do not trouble them, they flee from them?
The Pope is bishop of Rome and has the ultimate responsibility for the preservation of the faith. He cannon alter anything in the doctrines of the Church, but he can augment and clarify. This is consistent with the St. Peter of the New Testament.
Some imperial trappings of modern papacy might be off-putting to the outsiders, but they are not the essence of the Papacy.
Now you use another weasel word, "excuse". The Church teaches that homosexuality as a preference (inclination we prefer to call it) is an objectively disordered condition. We do not go into wheather it is innate or acquired, but it is a disorder. It becomes sin when it turns into lust, and graver sin when lust is acted out, but in itself it is merely a disorder which gives an occasion of sin, like many others. For example, someone might be inclined to anger, and that inclination might lead to various sins of the heart or worse, sins of the act.
Yes, this is the Catholic view as well. A priest should refuse to absolve a sin if there is no evidence of a desire to amend it. The "purpose of amendment" might be not sufficient to overcome the sin, so the sin will recur, but if the purpose of amentment is completely lacking, then there should be no absolution, and consequently the sinner cannot take communion.
He is, of course, encouraged to repent and fix the problem, but till such time he is excommunicated.
A typical case would be one who is engaged in sexual cohabitation outside of marriage, and has no intention to sever the illicit relationship.
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