John 7:37-38 has a solution for that acid reflux.
Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
I've elaborated quite a lot on my position and perspective.
I'm disinclined to do it on demand per other people's criteria and expectations. I do it according to my sensibilities. Many demands for "clarification" are merely fishing expeditions for things to fight over further. I hate that.
I will indulge the request somewhat.
1. In addition to a Heavenly warm, Holy Spirit spirit, atmostphere, feeling in a room . . . suddenly leaving and a cold, freezing, dark, black feeling sort of spirit, atmosphere descending . . .
There can be:
2. An anointed speaker, worship leader may step into the flesh and begin doing his own thing--and Holy Spirit's spirit, atmostphere, anointing for healing, delivering etc, will suddenly "LIFT" AS IN "LIFT OFF." No more healings will occur. No more deliverances will occur. The music will suddenly ring flat or hollow (not talking about pitch). It will suddenly be obvious to many that the folks leading things are suddenly now going through the motions but God is not in it.
3. Very wise and Scriptural words like apples of gold in bowls of silver will stop and harsh, sawdust words will spew forth--chaff vs Heavenly manna.
I could go on but that will have to do for now. I shall see how such examples are received as an indication of truly seeking to understand vs fish for something to rail against.
BTW, WHEN I'VE GONE TO GREAT LENGTHS TO BE EXTREMELY EGALITARIAN--AS GOD IS--ABOUT HIS ANOINTING TO ALL WILLING TO WALK CLOSE TO HIM--I'VE EMPHASIZED THAT OVER AND OVER--TO THEN CHEEKILY INSIST THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT A SECRET, CLOSED, BELIEVE ONLY AS I DO CLUB . . . I CONSIDER THAT INSULTING. Not a big deal. Has no eternal consequence. But . . . for the record, that should be noted.
No sweat. I forgive you and love you as you are.
I'm not sure what the "it" is in your sentence, but I'm guessing that you are referring to your circular reasoning in #877. So, you seem to be saying that circular reasoning is not foolish to those with the Spirit.
Romans 10:6 sufficiently addresses how to respond to the question of who has the Spirit.
I have read Romans 10:6, but I do not see how it answer the question: "Who has the Spirit?"
-A8
The short answer to your question is no.
I am not aware of Catholics flocking to Baptist, Lutheran, Calvinist or any other non-Catholic threads and telling the participants that they are wrong simply because of their denomination. If this does happen, then I think it is disgraceful.
Most Protestants with whom I am familiar express none of the anti-Catholic rhetoric that I have seen in this thread. Perhaps they believe it, but they do not openly state it. To say "we're all so excited about Jesus we just want to tell you about it, AND OH BY THE WAY EVERYTHING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES IS WRONG," is an anti-Catholic insult.
To say "we're all so excited about Jesus we just want to tell you about it, AND OH BY THE WAY EVERYTHING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES IS WRONG," is an anti-Catholic insult.
= = =
But far too often, merely the mirror image of what we have to put up with coming our direction.
And I believe that it would be equally improper for me to go onto a thread based on an article by someone like Charles Spurgeon and say "everything that Calvinists believe is wrong."
Obviously, I believe that there are fundamental flaws in Protestant beliefs, just as they feel the same way about Catholicism. But do I think that all of their beliefs are wrong? NO.
There are several Chick tracts attacking the Catholic Church. You can find them all on his website. I don't think the RM would appreciate direct links posted, so you'll have to find them yourself. Believe me, I've read several and they are vile.
I am well aware of how vile they are. However, it is interesting to note that you will never see anything written by a Catholic saying that a prominent Protestant is the antichrist or that all Methodists are burning in Hell.
In their view, there was no way to adjudicate between me and them. I either got the burning or I did not. Every sect in the world could use the same test, and there would be people who seemed to get the 'burning' for each and every sect. You seem to be saying the same thing as the Mormons with respect to how to determine whether someone has the anointing. The test is entirely subjective (except for your test regarding healings, but you know of course that even demons can perform signs and wonders, so that doesn't tell us anything).
When two persons or two groups pray and still disagree, then what? Disunity. That was my original point. When the tests are entirely subjective, disunity is the necessary implication. But for the first 1500 years of Church history, the test was apostolicity; who had been ordained in succession from the Apostles. That is why the Apostle John says in 1 John 4:6 "He who knows God listens to us [i.e. the Apostles and by implication those bishops in Apostolic succession]; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."
-A8
I'm really sorry that you were offended by anything I've said. I was wrong to assume, and I believe that quix was giving an analogy, not intending to insult you.
..or explain how it is that he determines who has the anointing. That is why it seems to me that he is part of some "secret club", because he won't reveal who are its members, and how one gets to be in the club, or how one determines who is "in" the club.
It's hard to take you seriously when you talk about secret clubs and membership. Being a spirit-filled, SURRENDERED Christion is not a club. It's not how you're bred, or what church you attend, or who your preacher is. IT's between you and the Lord. Many people are annointed at many different times. Nobody has a "I'm the annointed one" membership card.
Maybe instead of bantering back and forth with quix for your answer, which you won't find here; you can earnestly seek God about this. Only He can show you the truth about His annointing. (And please don't come back with "How do you know I don't already earnestly seek God about this?" as the line of your questions have gone.)
(I'm going to presume, again, that you really don't understand "the annointing" because of the way you've questioned and constantly put the words in parentheses, like it's something we made up .. forgive me if I'm wrong. But just in case..) Try praying something like: Father God, I'm so incredibly curious about this annointing that quix talks about. Father, forgive me if I've in any way offended You in reference to Your mighty gifts and awesome powers. It's about You, Father, not me. Help me to know You in a supernatural way. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Show me those areas in my life that I need to surrender more of to You. Father, I surrender all doubts, preconceived notions, and any thoughts that aren't in obedience with what You desire to work out in my life for YOUR glory. Father, I want Your Best for me, whatever that means, however that looks. Like that father whose son was healed (Mark 9), I say to you, "I do believe, help me overcome my unbelief." I just bless You and praise You with my whole being. Thank you for your Son, who is the bridge between You and I. Thank you for the Holy Spirit, who woos us, leads, and guides us. I just love you, Lord. In Jesus' Holy precious name. Amen.
Adaireton8, with all seriousness, if you are truly interested in the supernatural annointing of our Lord, go to HIM, with it. Use your own words, but be HONEST with Him. He loves You and will honor your GENUINE, no strings attached, longing to know him in a more supernatural way.
I'll be praying with you that you find your answers!
This is NOT a closed thread. Closed threads are devotionals, prayer threads and threads designated as a caucus for a particular confession.
On closed threads, challenges to the host confession are strictly not allowed. The assembly will not be disturbed.
This is an open thread. Challenges are allowed here, just like in a public square. Posters who take such challenges personally, should stay away from open threads and instead go to the closed threads - otherwise, every open thread he frequents is at risk of becoming a flame war.
Even atheists mount their challenges on open threads and surely seeing God referred to as a "pink unicorn" would cause an even greater offense (or should, but in fact rarely does, which indicates a deeper problem here.)
On open threads, the poster must "suffer the adverse testimony" and mount a rational argument to debunk misunderstandings, errors, false doctrine, etc.
I was unaware of Catholics swarming non-Catholic threads to the extent that Catholic threads are swarmed.
Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." -- 1 Corinthians 15:10-11"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Men are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And faith comes by hearing the world of God.
How a poster behaves often carries more weight than what he actually says.
-A8
Reread Romans 10 after returning to Him in faith and prayer so that He may guide your soul, spirit, and heart.
The 'anointing' or 'unction' is a synonym for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Whenever a is called by the Father and responds with faith in Christ alone, the Holy Spirit immediately is free to regenerate the unbeliever's spirit as he is now a believer. Once regenerated, the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit during this Church Age.
This doesn't occur during the Millenial Reign of Christ. It is a unique gift of the Church Age which places us all into his immediate royal family.
The Holy Spirit provides a temple in our body for the indwelling of the Father and of the Son. These are all outstanding motivations for attainment of spiritual objectives.
The passage in Romans provides enormous opportunity for the Holy Spirit to make these things understood to our spirit, but again only through faith in Christ. As soon as we step away from faith in Him, our soul is no longer filled with the Holy SPirit, rather we become carnal and lapse into our previous methods of thinking which were developed only in the soul and body, a scarred system of thinking void of a spirit filled life.
John 14:26 reiterates how the Holy Spirit is the one who teaches us the faith (doctrine) and brings the sound faith back to our memories.
An interesting observation about faith through Christ is that the indwelling of Spirit, Son and Father are all possible while we remain in faith through Him, whereas once we stray, He still indwells us as the Holy Spirit, positionally sanctifying us for salvation, but our sin grieves the Spirit and turns us to carnality rather than a Living God in a spirit filled life. If we continue to dwell in carnality, our sins will naturally turn to not only grieving the Holy Spirit, but in further degeneration of our thinking we will be tempted to even attack Him and quench the Holy SPirit. In extreme cases after divine discipline is repeatedly ignored are rebelled by the sinner, the degenerate believer might no longer serve a useful function in His plan and be called home.
Romans 10 helps to re-emphasis that our keeping in step with His filling is promoted not by critical thinking such as that of an adversarial accuser, but rather a spirit filled thinking placing all faith in Him through faith in Christ.
There are different gifts from the Holy Spirit for different believers. The gift of pastor-teacher is well described in Scripture. Not all pastors may have been gifted for all particular believers.
WRT Roman Catholicism, I rejoice at the many rigorous studies in faith which the RCC has fostered and recorded. There are many sound believers within the body and ecclesiastical offices of the RCC and many extend helps to believers in other denominations and environments.
Insofar as discerning the Spirit, it probably better to discern the filling of the Spirit rather than the indwelling, they are not the same. The filling of the Spirit is discerned again by the Spirit, not by us alone, as who knows the hearts of man other than the one who constantly searches our hearts.
We might be known by our fruits, which are evidence of things not seen, and they might reflect when some are filled and some not filled, but even that is very risky business, as the Lord may use many mysterious ways to fulfill His purpose after His own counsel.
GB
John 7:37-38 has a solution for that acid reflux.
It's all about being secure in your beliefs.
I know what I believe, why I believe it and that it is true. I don't have to tear anyone else down in order to feel better. I am at peace, home at Christ's Church.
I find even those who don't recognize/care that they are not in full communion with Rome, but still claim to be Catholic,attack the Church with the same chick-like vitriol. To me that's as strong an indication as any that they are not resting easy in the Truth.
To truly know Christ and His Church is to know a peace that only He can bring.
I'm not sure why you think it is hard to take me seriously when I talk about a "secret club". I'm not claiming that there really is a secret club. It is just that Pentecostal/charismatic types tend to make everything subjective, including the determination of who is or is not anointed. And as the "computer chip" comment reveals, those who ask how one determines who is anointed are treated as unenlightened uninitiated ones, those who have not yet received the 'gnosis'. The notion implied is, "If you have to ask, you obviously don't have it." That's what makes it seem like a secret club.
One problem with this subjective [gnostic] philosophy is that it fuels religious relativism and pluralism. It eliminates the possibility of Church unity, for it removes ecclesial hiearchy, gives each person the authority to do "what is right in his own eyes", and is in that way part of what foments the proliferation of Christian sects, contrary to Christ's prayer for unity in John 17 and Paul's comments in 1 Cor 1:10-13 and Eph 4:3-5.
-A8
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