people talk have fun while it....
Posted on 04/27/2006 3:03:34 PM PDT by restornu
>> I say that the passage clearly speaks of the One and Only God ... and the One and Only Saviour.
GEAT! The Spirit, and my intellect say differently, but it’s fun discussing our different perceptions of reality and the scriptures.
This “I say…” that you wind up in when you only have the bible is precisely why we need more scripture. (Thanks for illustrating). That’s why I can and have come up with many scriptures supporting my position.
I say you are wrong in your interpretations. I also believe you to be a sincere if deluded individual. It is interesting that those on the other side of this discussion will not afford us the same latitude, instead we are vilified, misrepresented, and painted as black and vile deceivers, who trick people into our church by half truths, “Lying for the Lord” and many other contemptible accusations.
I say you didn’t make much of an argument with your post. You may say differently, nice collection of scriptures, too bad you didn’t use them better.
I say you didn’t make much of an argument with your post. You may say differently, nice collection of scriptures, too bad you didn’t use them better.
I say that you are resorting to the tactics of someone who has nothing further of value to bring to the debating table.
Of course, ... such behaviour is not at all uncharacteristic of the Mormons posting to this site.
You all have variety of such (ineffectual) tactics that you use ... when you can no longer proceed with honest debate.
I say that you are resorting to the tactics of someone who has nothing further of value to bring to the debating table.
Of course, ... such behaviour is not at all uncharacteristic of the Mormons posting to this site.
You all have variety of such (ineffectual) tactics that you use ... when you can no longer proceed with honest debate. ~ Quester
In all the years I have seen you post "Quester", to the LDS such as Grig James one of the longest dialogue, even Logogphile etc!
You never gave an acknowledgement to any thing that that stared you in the face!
You are not truly a "Quester" as in "Quest!" that is a misnomer because a seekers want to know the truth not deny it!
***
Matt. 11:
25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matt. 16:
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 10:
21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
John 6:
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
***
John 6:
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (a servant of God like Moses or Enoch, Joseph is purified [elevated] for a brief time is able to see the Father)
***
John 17:
1 THESE words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Eph. 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Quester I can't help but marvel...
Jesus could bear witness to you "Quester" of His Father in Heaven, and you would tell Jesus he is wrong for the Nicene Creed says..
>>I say that you are resorting to the tactics of someone who has nothing further
>>of value to bring to the debating table.
I knew you were going to say that!
>>Of course, ... such behaviour is not at all uncharacteristic of the Mormons posting to this site.
Spell check it’s your friend
>>You all have variety of such (ineffectual) tactics that you use ...
Every one has favorite tactics and they tend to vary by person and also by mood. What was the point of your almost sentence again?
>>when you can no longer proceed with honest debate.
Please define honest and dishonest debate. I did not know that we were debating yet, you simply posted an “I say” section about your opinions. My philosophy professor taught me “whenever it is a matter of opinion, I am right”. So, let’s discuss debate, first, how long have I been on this thread, and how long have you been part of this debate.
I have been on this thread for about 700 Posts, probably a quarter of these posts are mine, topics have ranged from The council at nice, hyppolytus, Modern revelation, the book of Mormon’s origin, the nature of God, Early reformation efforts by the apostles and more.
Please, go read all my posts on this thread, so you know what has already been said (since you are jumping in “in the middle” as it were). Now about debate, there is an accepted form for debate typically it is more than just a collection of reference material which leaves the reader to their own interpretation (Not a good thing in debate).
You posted a collection of scriptures which if tied together might have made an argument worth listening to, but since you always started with “I say” which is at best a bad debating tactic, at worst an attempt to assert truth “because I say so”. Either way, it’s a semi public forum, want to try again?
This time instead of saying “I say…” try forming a hypothesis, support it with scripture and summarize drawing on more scripture. In your summary, try to look at things from my perspective and preempt any scriptures I might bring up to support my interpretation, by using them in your original statement you may make it more difficult for me to frame a cogent reply. I typically use word, write my answers (Spell Check is automatic), read the response out loud, then cut and paste it into the reply box.
Framing a proper, researched, coherent argument takes time, if you don’t have it, get another hobby FR is not for the rushed, they end up embarrassing themselves.
Personally, I would rather let a reply wait a couple of days before responding so I can respond properly, instead of trying to get a response out in a 5 minute window of time
This lesson on basic debate was brought to you by the letters A and H which together make the sound Ah! Like someone who just got a clue.
Sorry, I left you off of my ping to 725
I see your new book "101 Clever Comebacks" is serving you well.
Have you ever heard of Chiasms? Be honest now, did you know about them before I brought it up?
Incidentally, there are Mormons who've noticed that chiasms appear in Smith's other writings. The particular author I linked to doesn't seem to get that if Smith wrote like that, it doesn't count for ancient authorship.
So, now your not only smarter than me, you are a psychic too, Miss Cleo, is that you? I believe what I believe; you only have my words and my actions to see what that is.
If you believed Mormonism the same way you believe George Bush is President of the United States, you would expect everything to match that. But you don't. That's all irrelevant to you, otherwise you wouldn't think it's impossible to prove Mormonism wrong. Which necessarily means you don't think it's true in the sense of being, you know, true.
I told him and I will tell you, “True science is merely another form of Theology, since we are studying what God left for us to study.”
Unless it conflicts with a burning bosom, in which case we stop studying and start saying "I know Joseph Smith was a prophet, I know the church is true..."
Mormonism does meet up with reality, the question is, what is reality? I have my perceptions, you have yours, somewhere in between is reality. One of us may be closer than the other, but reality probably escapes us both. Did you want to have a philosophical discussion, or not? Oh, I see, I am too dim to have any perceptions, well, since I am barely sentient, why are you bothering to even talk to me?
If we have our own "perceptions" and no objective basis for assessing them, just how are we supposed to have any kind of discussion?
"Oh, I see," anyone who disagrees with you simply denies that you have perceptions at all and personally insults your sentience. And since personal insults are bad, we should all do the polite thing and agree with everything you say.
In all the years I have seen you post "Quester", to the LDS such as Grig James one of the longest dialogue, even Logogphile etc!
You never gave an acknowledgement to any thing that that stared you in the face!
You are not truly a "Quester" as in "Quest!" that is a misnomer because a seekers want to know the truth not deny it!
Quester I can't help but marvel...
Jesus could bear witness to you "Quester" of His Father in Heaven, and you would tell Jesus he is wrong for the Nicene Creed says ...
A few of your statements here, Restornu ... are an example of what I am talking about.
Here ... you go beyond ... judging my arguments ... to judging me, ... something that Christians are encouraged not to do.Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.And it is but one example of what Mormons are, more often than not, left doing when the evidence doesn't support their contentions (as is often the case).
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I, actually, understand (to some extent) your plight.
Mormonism is built upon a virtual dearth of non-evidence.You hold sacred a document (the BOM) ... for which you have no original documents ... which only one person ever claimed to have read.I understand that defending the above ... would be quite difficult.
The BOM references historical events and circumstances (Jews in the early Americas) ... for which there is no supporting evidence.
You leaders have changed their positions on key points of church doctrine at many times in your history.
You declare as God-approved, ... behaviours which the Jewish and Christians faiths condemned long ago (polygamy).
Etc. ... etc. ... etc.
So ... it doesn't surprise me when ...... a poster starts to judge me ... rather than my argument,Actually, it would surprise me ... that any of you could raise cogent arguments for the claims of Mormonism ... for that task is well-nigh impossible.
... or when a poster hits the abuse button ... rather than address the argument,
... or when a poster begins to post non-relevant pictures,
... or when a poster simply declares an argument wrong without bringing forth any evidence,
... or a poster just fades away ... from the discussion.
Believe me when I say ... I feel your pain.
But ... also believe me ... when I say that I, and those you meet here who argue for the cause of christianity ... are, largely ... doing just that.
We are really only anti-Mormon in the sense that, ... we believe that you should know the truth.
And ... so long as you are willing to dialogue with us, ... we will continue to present to you the truths of historic christianity ... and the fallacies of Mormonism.
God Bless ...
Seems if I were a prophet I would write that way when receivng scripture from the same Author!
Please define honest and dishonest debate. I did not know that we were debating yet, you simply posted an “I say” section about your opinions. My philosophy professor taught me “whenever it is a matter of opinion, I am right”. So, let’s discuss debate, first, how long have I been on this thread, and how long have you been part of this debate.
I have been on this thread for about 700 Posts, probably a quarter of these posts are mine, topics have ranged from The council at nice, hyppolytus, Modern revelation, the book of Mormon’s origin, the nature of God, Early reformation efforts by the apostles and more.
Please, go read all my posts on this thread, so you know what has already been said (since you are jumping in “in the middle” as it were).
I’ve read the thread … including your comments. If you check, you’ll find that I started to post at around post # 250. I was tracking the thread a good bit before that.
Now about debate, there is an accepted form for debate typically it is more than just a collection of reference material which leaves the reader to their own interpretation (Not a good thing in debate).
You posted a collection of scriptures which if tied together might have made an argument worth listening to, but since you always started with “I say” which is at best a bad debating tactic, at worst an attempt to assert truth “because I say so”.
You’ve misunderstood.
I’m not saying … "Because I say so."
I’m saying … this is my say (i.e. my opinion) … in response to your specific request in post # 707 …I say this is debatable, because we are indeed debating it. What say you ?So ... it seems that my response was quite appropriate … and that we are debating.
Of course, I posted scriptural support for my say (i.e. opinion) as well.
This lesson on basic debate was brought to you by the letters A and H which together make the sound Ah! Like someone who just got a clue.
Now there you go again … R. Reagan 1980
Excuse me an observation of a fact is now a Judgement and
And it is but one example of what Mormons are, more often than not, left doing when the evidence doesn't support their contentions (as is often the case).
I, actually, understand (to some extent) your plight.
Mormonism is built upon a virtual dearth of non-evidence.
Quester,I gave you srcipture and everyone of us gave you scripture to the subject the point is you never acknowledge to what is testified by the word of God!
...and what do you give Quester? - redirection and obfuscations!
It matters not because those lurkers who are not caught up in this Nicene of mindset are aware of this cat and mouce play!
"You merely expect it to give you certain emotions."
Brilliant!
Best line of this thread.
You fight the good fight. Keep it up. There are many of us that are used to the circular logic and obsfucation techniques utilized by the opposition.
Do not get sidetracked. This debate is about whether or not the Book of Mormon is God-written. It is not about style of debate, erroneous interpretation of scripture, or hate-filled anti-mormons. It is about the Book of Mormon and if Joseph Smith could have written it without being a prophet of God. I think all the evidence points to YES. An illiterate young man in his twenties can (and many others HAVE) written pure fictional nonsense. In fact it happens all the time. Read this post for one such example of pure fictional nonsense.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1631505/posts
Cute picture, can someone tell me what the caption means????
I remeber one of you old FR taglines you use to post a while back...
Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug.
That's a cute tagline...I don't recall using it, but it's cute.
I knew you posted that article for entertainment....I'm just saying people write about make-believe cultures, demons, spirits, and peoples all the time. Sometimes they even use scripture to make it sound more legitimate. Often they will use rythyms, words, names and places that replicate those we find in the Bible. It happens all the time. What makes the Book of Mormon unique is the marketing of a "new religion."
I do when I first encounter you it sort of stuck out I am sure I could if I cared fine it on FR your tagline.
It's like everything else on this thread, who's word will you take? I'm telling you now, I've never used it. You are mistaken.
I would have used it if I'd thought of it. It's cute and it's appropriate at times.
What does it have to do with this current conversation?
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