Did you see this?
Posted on 03/16/2006 7:42:26 AM PST by Gamecock
say what now, Nooby?
Did you see this?
Nooby?
What's that?
No, Jude's just been here a hell of a lot longer than you have, so he's got "street cred" with the Calvinists that, respectfully, you ain't got.
OOPS... I just cussed, I said "hell". EXCEPT -- I'm a Calvinist, I don't believe in "Magic Words". Guess I'm Okay.
Anyway, point is... this is the Religion Forum. Here we debate Theology, the Queen of the Sciences.
If you wanna say that Jude's Post is "a wussy rant", then you gotta analyze every one of his Premises and Derivations, and tell us all why you think his Post is "a wussy rant"... In Detail.
I mean, after all, this Forum is NOT for Atheists. We only enjoy the Company, Conversation, and Contention of Intelligent People here.
Best, OP
I'm pretty sure that's covered in one of the Top Ten.
We actually had a thread about angels a while back.
Because you cannot attack the message, you attack the messenger.
This is the oldest and most transparent trick of Satan (The Adversary).
Let's summarize your accusations:
1) John Calvin had Servetus executed.
2) John Calvin was sodomized.
Therefore: John Calvin is a sinner. Everything he wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner.
But of course you know that Saint Paul had Saint Stephen executed.
Do you therefore assert that everything Saint Paul wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner?
Why do you not contest the doctrines of Calvinism instead of misdirecting our attention to John Calvin, the man?
Answer: Because you cannot contest the doctrines of Calvinism.
You believe that by attacking John Calvin, the man, you are being clever.
You are not being clever. You are being transparent and foolish.
Repent!
If I would have listened to the propaganda against John Calvin, who I have a very soft spot in my heart for, I would have never discovered his beautiful and virile advocacy of God as Father.
I should be shocked at the chin-jutting reference to buggery, but I’m not.
The Italians in my neck of the wood will often use the expression senza vergogna. Vergogna means shame, senza means without, but when the phrase is used, it means so much more. It means, in the case at hand, knocking on the door of an offense your side has mastered, with immeasurable self-regard and arrogance, and with what appears to be pride in the fact that the mastered offense pricks the conscience not at all. In the old days this was enough to get you ostracized at the very least, because of the degraded character that it evinced.
The salutary thing about it, once it surfaces, is that it brings much to the fore, and forewarned is forearmed.
On another thread it was remarked to me that I was becoming affiliated with a doctrine that threw souls in the trash. Even if this were true, theoretically, but shown practically to be just the opposite, what is to be said of those who preach the opposite doctrine, theoretically, but practically, really do dump the souls entrusted to them in the trash?
It is, in the dialect , ’roba da pazze’; the stuff of madmen.
I bring this all up not as a poor reflection upon King David for we know that David was a man "after God's own heart". I bring this up simply because we cannot look back on history and judge people for the way they lived their lives. It is a different time and different era with different values.
I didn’t fail to mention anything that was necessary to the point. It is irrelevant, in a discussion about Calvin’s actions, to mention what the Church wanted to do.
You are trying to make a case that Calvin set up a kangaroo court to execute Servetus and what he did was wrong. If this is the case then it should be pointed out the Catholic Church had no such court and sought to execute Servetus without a trial or legal proceedings all with decrees from the Chair of Peter. As a historian and a Catholic I'm sure you can appreciate what that means. If you condemn Calvin then you must condemn the Church. Assuming your authors are even remotely correct, if anything Calvin sought to work within the legal system. The Church did not. You can't have it both ways.
There was a judge and a jury who tried and convicted Servetus. I don't know about you but I get a team of five people in a room and it is next to impossible to get them to agree on anything. I doubt if Calvin weighed that much control over 12 jurors regardless of how important you may feel his position was.
Italian converts are my very favorite. You know of what you speak. 8~)
Naw, he never did become a Catholic priest, that proves his innocence on THAT charge
Tears well up in my eyes to read a real rant. Dang eloquent, bro. Dang eloquent.
And not an anathema in the entire rant, great restraint I would say
"The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." -- Romans 13:12
Respectfully, there is only one light, one protector, one Shepherd, one intermediary, one truth, one salvation, one Savior -- Jesus Christ.
I read the last parts of "Martyrs Mirror" it can alter the course of anyones faith, whether one is very religious or not. Other than the Amish and Mennonite people around Minnesota, I have never known anyone who has read this stirring book through and through. Even among the Baptists, I have met no one who has read it through completely. If I could, I would recommend the last few chapters to be the best part. It is within the confines of these last chapters, the long letters written from various prisons, that one will uncover perfect gems, like the testimonies of those waiting to be burned, to their friends and relatives. Martyr's Mirror is a phenomenal work of Christian orthodox literature, written out of love, because of love, with the bottom line, (that to kill someone because of their faith is a sin.)
Thanks for the strong defense of the faith! You had best always work for the persecution.
This is simply mud slinging lies attempting to discredit a man of God.
The pot calls the kettle black and hopes that by smearing its own filth on others theirs is less an issue.
Sorry that dog does not hunt.
Indulgences never ended, they just changed a bit. What do you think the value of a "mass for the dead" is?
Could you show us any historic evidence that angels are to be prayed to or that they are "saints" ? The prayer is into thin air, heard by no one.
Thanks for the recommendation of "Martyrs Mirror."
Because God guided me to this thread this morning, I will order the book, read it and be strengthened by the righteous testimonies of martyred saints.
As God wills.
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