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To: vladimir998
The best that the adversaries of Calvinism can do is attack John Calvin, the man.

Because you cannot attack the message, you attack the messenger.

This is the oldest and most transparent trick of Satan (The Adversary).

Let's summarize your accusations:

1) John Calvin had Servetus executed.

2) John Calvin was sodomized.

Therefore: John Calvin is a sinner. Everything he wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner.

But of course you know that Saint Paul had Saint Stephen executed.

Do you therefore assert that everything Saint Paul wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner?

Why do you not contest the doctrines of Calvinism instead of misdirecting our attention to John Calvin, the man?

Answer: Because you cannot contest the doctrines of Calvinism.

You believe that by attacking John Calvin, the man, you are being clever.

You are not being clever. You are being transparent and foolish.

Repent!

228 posted on 03/19/2006 12:09:13 PM PST by Aggressive Calvinist
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To: Aggressive Calvinist
Why do you not contest the doctrines of Calvinism instead of misdirecting our attention to John Calvin, the man?
Answer: Because you cannot contest the doctrines of Calvinism.
You believe that by attacking John Calvin, the man, you are being clever.
You are not being clever. You are being transparent and foolish.

Attacking the messenger is the mode of those poorly prepared to argue the facts.

241 posted on 03/19/2006 12:56:33 PM PST by ears_to_hear
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To: Aggressive Calvinist; jude24
Your Post #228 was excellent.

However, we should stay away from eachother.

On the one hand, if I remember correctly -- you're a Supralapsarian, whereas I am radically Infralapsarian (I still say that any Calvinist who has ever read "Dabney's Synthesis, Lecture 21" must be an Infralapsarian; if you're not yet, I suspect you haven't read it yet)...

...and on the other hand, it seems that all my Calvinist FRiends eventually get Banned. (Sigh)

Anyway, I thought that your #228 was very good.

Best, OP

244 posted on 03/19/2006 1:08:17 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (By the power of the truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.)
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To: Aggressive Calvinist

So pleased to meet another supralapsarian brother. I often suspect those brothers of another mind are concerned with God sounding harsh as opposed to sovereign !


245 posted on 03/19/2006 1:12:23 PM PST by ears_to_hear
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To: Aggressive Calvinist

You wrote: "The best that the adversaries of Calvinism can do is attack John Calvin, the man."

Honestly is anything else necessary? Christ founded our Church. He was perfect. Calvin founded your Church and he was far from perfect. Christ gave us God-given theology. You have Calvin's. Does that not matter?

"Because you cannot attack the message, you attack the messenger."

No, I attack the source of the message showing that the flaws of the messanger should make any man think twice about the veracity of the message.

"This is the oldest and most transparent trick of Satan (The Adversary)."

So if Satan founded your sect would I not be allowed to talk about his flaws as well? LOL!

"Let's summarize your accusations:
1) John Calvin had Servetus executed.
2) John Calvin was sodomized."

No. I never said Calvin was sodomized. I posted evidence that suggests he was a sodomite. When can be a sodomite by choice whereas being "sodomized" usually indicated tat someone forced you.

"Therefore: John Calvin is a sinner. Everything he wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner."

Yes.

"But of course you know that Saint Paul had Saint Stephen executed."

No, he did not. He had no authority to do so. Paul's authority was about Damascus' Jews who had converted to the Way. He had no authority in Jerusalem.

"Do you therefore assert that everything Saint Paul wrote, taught, and did is the work of a sinner?"

The author of Paul's letters was God. Paul was more than an instrument, but less than the true author. You do realize that Paul's letters were actually written by God (who is sinless) through Paul (who was a sinner) correct? Again, you seem very confused about scripture.

"Why do you not contest the doctrines of Calvinism instead of misdirecting our attention to John Calvin, the man?"

Please show me where killing Servetus was a doctrine of Calvinists. I was talking about the actions of Calvin. I was not arguing over his doctrines. I see no reason to talk about Calvin’s doctrines when I am talking about his actions as a man.

“Answer: Because you cannot contest the doctrines of Calvinism.”

Yes, actually I can. I just see no point in doing so in a thread where the point became how Calvin worked to have Servetus killed.

“You believe that by attacking John Calvin, the man, you are being clever.”

No, I believe that telling the truth about Calvin will show the truth about Calvin. That was my intention and I have succeeded.

“You are not being clever.”

I wasn’t trying to be clever so I have apparently succeeded again. Thanks for letting me know that I am not doing what I wasn’t trying to do.

“You are being transparent and foolish.”

I am absolutely being transparent. I am telling the truth about Calvin and Servetus. That is exactly what I wanted to do. I am not being foolish. I have not tried to be either.

“Repent!”

Already did – that’s why I am not a Calvinist.


261 posted on 03/19/2006 4:41:26 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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