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To: jo kus
Here's the problem with your entire premise. You are confusing God's "time" with our time. God sees everything as one NOW. ...Since God sees yesterday, today, and tommorrow as ONE EVENT, His decrees ARE our actions!

Thus, God does not literally plan things on T minus day one of creation, then goes to sleep, wakes up, and then each day, consults His pre-planned chart of things to do today and ensure that it will happen!


997 posted on 01/11/2006 9:33:35 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Yikes!!! Are you saying God runs the universe based upon OUR determined will???

Heaven forbid!!! No!

I am saying that the Scripture often writes in human manner when it talks about God's eternal plan.

Let's try again. What God did in Genesis 1 occurs SIMULTANEOUSLY with what I am typing right this very moment, TO GOD. This is so because He is outside of time. He is not constrained, by neither space OR time. However, the Scriptures, in an effort to teach God's "predetermined" will and plan, describes God's actions on a scale of time - in other words, from OUR point of view. Thus, from OUR point of view, God did everything you mentioned. To us, it appears that God has planned everything "before" the creation of the world (which should be your first clue on the ability to delve into this mystery - there is no "before" time).

While God is not subjected to the laws of time, His creation and creatures are. The universe, the angels and man are all subject to time and will forever be subject to it. God works within the bounds of time but He is not bound to it and, make no mistake, neither is His creation if He so deems

Exactly. WE are subjected to time, and thus, the Scriptures describe God's actions in this manner. But if you take this thought of timelessness, that God exists in an eternal, unchanging present, to its logical conclusion, then God doesn't plan like men. Thus, God is able to see simulataneously my birth and death, my response or lack thereof to His grace.

The question that the Church has not answered: What makes a grace efficacious - man's response or God? That will twist your noodle (or maybe not, since you don't believe in free will). However, the very fact that the Church does not declare either answer incorrect shows that we just don't know - that the Church HAS NOT taught that man has no free will.

Regards

1,013 posted on 01/11/2006 11:16:09 AM PST by jo kus
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To: HarleyD
Are you saying God runs the universe based upon OUR determined will

No, that's not what we are saying Harley, you're willfully distorting ouor words.....
1,104 posted on 01/11/2006 8:23:14 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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